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matty
(@matty)
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09/11/2018 10:12 am  
Posted by: Mr. Irrelevant

y'all are insane in an impressive way. can't say my feet have ever been uncomfortable enough to send me to these lengths of customization to my boots. i do however like this potential idea from @nmb of buying new liners for my taros to maybe stiffen them up a bit/just give them more life

I can't speak for others who modify their liners, but for me it's not about comfort. I don't buy boots unless they're basically comfortable on my foot. For me, modifying the liners is about performance. I want as seamless a connection between me and my board as I can possibly get. I don't want to feel sloppy or vague response or feel my heel lift a half inch inside my boot before any input is transmitted to my toe side edge. Similarly, I don't want to feel my foot shift laterally in my boot when I try to load my tail for an ollie or do a nose butter. What I do want to feel is that my movements immediately begin to engage the flex of my boots/bindings and progressively transfer precise force into my snowboard.

This post was modified 2 weeks  ago by matty

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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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09/11/2018 10:13 am  
Posted by: matty
Posted by: Mr. Irrelevant

y'all are insane in an impressive way. can't say my feet have ever been uncomfortable enough to send me to these lengths of customization to my boots. i do however like this potential idea from @nmb of buying new liners for my taros to maybe stiffen them up a bit/just give them more life

I can't speak for others who modify their liners, but for me it's not about comfort. I don't buy boots unless they're basically comfortable on my foot. For me, modifying the liners is about performance. I want as seamless a connection between me and my board as I can possibly get. I don't want to feel sloppy or vague response or feel my heel lift a half inch inside my boot before any input is transmitted to my toe side edge. Similarly, I don't want to feel my foot shift laterally in my foot when I try to load my tail for an ollie or do a nose butter. What I do want to feel is that my movements immediately begin to engage the flex of my boots/bindings and progressively transfer force into my snowboard.

This is exactly what all that foam has accomplished for me... As I said, like a cast, yet comfortable. 

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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matty
(@matty)
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09/11/2018 10:18 am  
Posted by: pow_hnd
Posted by: matty
Posted by: Mr. Irrelevant

y'all are insane in an impressive way. can't say my feet have ever been uncomfortable enough to send me to these lengths of customization to my boots. i do however like this potential idea from @nmb of buying new liners for my taros to maybe stiffen them up a bit/just give them more life

I can't speak for others who modify their liners, but for me it's not about comfort. I don't buy boots unless they're basically comfortable on my foot. For me, modifying the liners is about performance. I want as seamless a connection between me and my board as I can possibly get. I don't want to feel sloppy or vague response or feel my heel lift a half inch inside my boot before any input is transmitted to my toe side edge. Similarly, I don't want to feel my foot shift laterally in my foot when I try to load my tail for an ollie or do a nose butter. What I do want to feel is that my movements immediately begin to engage the flex of my boots/bindings and progressively transfer force into my snowboard.

This is exactly what all that foam has accomplished for me... As I said, like a cast, yet comfortable. 

I'm getting there through trial and error, though I've only been doing my own liner modifications for a few years now and am completely self taught. Next up is probably a cheapo bench grinder or belt sander for shaping foam more quickly and easily than I can with regular old sandpaper. I would also like to try some aftermarket intuition liners, though I will want to be able to try before I buy. Did someone say that they're headquartered in Vancouver? That's only a couple of hours away for me. Do they have a showroom?


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slim253
(@slim253)
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Joined: 2 years  ago
Posts: 1186
09/11/2018 10:52 am  
Posted by: matty
Posted by: Mr. Irrelevant

y'all are insane in an impressive way. can't say my feet have ever been uncomfortable enough to send me to these lengths of customization to my boots. i do however like this potential idea from @nmb of buying new liners for my taros to maybe stiffen them up a bit/just give them more life

I can't speak for others who modify their liners, but for me it's not about comfort. I don't buy boots unless they're basically comfortable on my foot. For me, modifying the liners is about performance. I want as seamless a connection between me and my board as I can possibly get. I don't want to feel sloppy or vague response or feel my heel lift a half inch inside my boot before any input is transmitted to my toe side edge. Similarly, I don't want to feel my foot shift laterally in my boot when I try to load my tail for an ollie or do a nose butter. What I do want to feel is that my movements immediately begin to engage the flex of my boots/bindings and progressively transfer precise force into my snowboard.

i mean, yeah, all of this, but for me solving heel lift is also about not wearing through expensive ass socks where the achilles meets the heel.

@matty i suggest getting a dremel vs sander or grinder. you can get all kinds of flapper discs and little sanding drums for them, plus they're great around the house/garage for all kinds of things. they're the "swiss army knife" of power tools.

135 lbs. (62kg) | 5'7" (170cm) | Mens U.S. 8 boots | Fischer RC4 Worldcup GS 189cm


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CJ
 CJ
(@sw00shm4n)
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09/11/2018 11:27 am  
Posted by: matty

I'm getting there through trial and error, though I've only been doing my own liner modifications for a few years now and am completely self taught. Next up is probably a cheapo bench grinder or belt sander for shaping foam more quickly and easily than I can with regular old sandpaper. I would also like to try some aftermarket intuition liners, though I will want to be able to try before I buy. Did someone say that they're headquartered in Vancouver? That's only a couple of hours away for me. Do they have a showroom?

I don't know what their inventory is like at their Vancouver shop, but I've heard of people making appointments in the past. I've communicated via email with a lady there who has been pretty helpful, though I never made it in to their physical shop (which looks surprisingly small for how common and widespread their products are across the snow industry). I'd definitely reach out to them. Intution liners, at least the aftermarket ones, feel like they really need to be cooked up to properly mold. Maybe my microwave just sucked, but I tried to heat mold a pair of powerwrap liners via the diy sock and rice method instructions they have, but don't feel it was anywhere near what a proper heat molding device could do in a shop. They have a video where they show a wrap liner fresh out the heat stack at their shop, and it looks like you could fold it every which way like pizza dough.

This post was modified 2 weeks  ago by CJ

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F1EA
 F1EA
(@f1ea)
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09/11/2018 11:29 am  
Posted by: matty
Posted by: pow_hnd
Posted by: matty
Posted by: Mr. Irrelevant

y'all are insane in an impressive way. can't say my feet have ever been uncomfortable enough to send me to these lengths of customization to my boots. i do however like this potential idea from @nmb of buying new liners for my taros to maybe stiffen them up a bit/just give them more life

I can't speak for others who modify their liners, but for me it's not about comfort. I don't buy boots unless they're basically comfortable on my foot. For me, modifying the liners is about performance. I want as seamless a connection between me and my board as I can possibly get. I don't want to feel sloppy or vague response or feel my heel lift a half inch inside my boot before any input is transmitted to my toe side edge. Similarly, I don't want to feel my foot shift laterally in my foot when I try to load my tail for an ollie or do a nose butter. What I do want to feel is that my movements immediately begin to engage the flex of my boots/bindings and progressively transfer force into my snowboard.

This is exactly what all that foam has accomplished for me... As I said, like a cast, yet comfortable. 

I'm getting there through trial and error, though I've only been doing my own liner modifications for a few years now and am completely self taught. Next up is probably a cheapo bench grinder or belt sander for shaping foam more quickly and easily than I can with regular old sandpaper. I would also like to try some aftermarket intuition liners, though I will want to be able to try before I buy. Did someone say that they're headquartered in Vancouver? That's only a couple of hours away for me. Do they have a showroom?

Yep their HQ is right in Vancouver. Near Broadway and Cambie.

210 West 6th Ave.

 

They have a showroom and a pro bootfitter in hand. All the liners, in all the sizes, plus a lot of little customization bits. You have to make an appointment for the fitter, but that's easy to work out...

 

It is a relatively small operation. Small building and it isn't a big shop-like place, but they have everything you'll need right there. To me the best is being able to try all the type and sizes, and all the volumes (because some liners have different volume options, this is crucial for both wide or narrow feet), all with a boot fitter in hand. 

I had a photo of their main display wall but can't find it right now..

This post was modified 2 weeks  ago by F1EA

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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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09/11/2018 11:37 am  
Posted by: CJ
Posted by: matty

I'm getting there through trial and error, though I've only been doing my own liner modifications for a few years now and am completely self taught. Next up is probably a cheapo bench grinder or belt sander for shaping foam more quickly and easily than I can with regular old sandpaper. I would also like to try some aftermarket intuition liners, though I will want to be able to try before I buy. Did someone say that they're headquartered in Vancouver? That's only a couple of hours away for me. Do they have a showroom?

I don't know what their inventory is like at their Vancouver shop, but I've heard of people making appointments in the past. I've communicated via email with a lady there who has been pretty helpful, though I never made it in to their physical shop (which looks surprisingly small for how common and widespread their products are across the snow industry). I'd definitely reach out to them. Intution liners, at least the aftermarket ones, feel like they really need to be cooked up to properly mold. Maybe my microwave just sucked, but I tried to heat mold a pair of powerwrap liners via the diy sock and rice method instructions they have, but don't feel it was anywhere near what a proper heat molding device could do in a shop. They have a video where they show a wrap liner fresh out the heat stack at their shop, and it looks like you could fold it every which way like pizza dough.

Yea, I don't care what anyone says, sock and rice doesn't work. You need either a stack or convection oven to mold Intuition liners. 

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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nmb
 nmb
(@notmikebuckley)
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Posts: 900
09/11/2018 5:20 pm  

so I rode the 151 during slush season and this 156 showed a bit mysteriously today

FE955D52 B25A 4320 835B 9B275BC4F71F

and I think it’ll be super fun especially on a deep day. Wide, tapered, and such a SURFY 🤙🏽🤙🏽 shape. 

skier


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c.fuzzy
(@c-fuzzy)
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Posts: 963
12/11/2018 8:29 am  
Posted by: pow_hnd
Posted by: c.fuzzy
Posted by: pow_hnd
Posted by: c.fuzzy
Posted by: pow_hnd

Sometimes you've just got to get super aggressive with the boot foam.

With these mods, my foot is locked in like a cast, yet still totally comfortable.

 

IMG 1145

Please explain this magic

@c-fuzzy    So, on the shin is some high density boot foam. It's referred to as a "break pad". It actually helps a TON towards heel lift, not only do you need to make the liner tight around your heel, but if it has nowhere to go forward then your heel lift is solved that way as well. By adding the break pad it makes it so I don't have to over tighten my boots, when I first start to tighten my my boots there is now 100% positive contact between the tongue and liner, so tightening my boots are actually tightening the boots and not just taking up the space between the tongue and liner, or liner and foot. 

It's the same general principal on the sides of my forefoot as well. By adding that foam ( medium density ) when I put my foot in the liner it is now in contact with my foot all the way down the side, there is no voids and now when I start to tighten my boots it's actually tightening my boots and not just taking up the space in voids. 

Voids are really the issue in boot fitting. Generally the first lets say 1/3-1/2 of tightening you do on your boots is a lot of taking up voids. Even with that being true, there are still spots on your boot/foot where when that void is being closed that your foot was already in contact and those spots are where you are going to get over tightening.

So by figuring out where voids are and eliminating those, two things happen. First, you stop over tightening your boots to get the correct fit/no heel lift. Second, you just don't need to tighten your boots nearly as tight because you start off with 100% positive contact all around your foot, you're already locked into your liner when you initially put your foot in. 

It's a science and an art, and it takes a bunch of experimenting to get right, but once you get it right, it's like a dream. The snowboard shop that I worked at for a long long time was owned by people that also had a ski shop that had been around forever and they had 2 master boot fitters on staff and those guys taught me a lot. The owners also sent me to Superfeet boot fitting clinics that Superfeet would put on every year for boot fitters and I learned a lot, I think I went 5 or 6 times. We crushed it on boots vs. the on the other snowboard shop in our town because of our boot fitting magic. Basically if you make someones feet 100% happy, they'll be so stoked that they will buy everything else from you.. 

Before I get crazy and use permanent glue on my boots I use the cheap self-adhesive boot foam to figure out where, what and how much foam is needed to make everything right, honestly that takes about 5-6 days of riding. Then when I'm sure everything is good to go I use the good foam and a spray on glue to make things permanent and make cambered edges so taking the liners in and out of my boots won't fuck up the foam.

@matty    I use 3m Foam Fast 74, its a specialty one made for foam/fabric. 

@alonzo   It's just foam on the tongue. Yes, it's there to fill the void between the liner and tongue and make it so I don't have to over tighten my boots... 

 

These are pics of the full liner... 

 

IMG 1143
IMG 1144
IMG 1142
IMG 1141

So my cursory searches with combinations of the words 'high density' 'boot' 'fitter' 'foam' etc. have not been very rewarding.

Where do you source these foams or how can I go about getting some to try this?

I buy it from my local boot fitting shop. The Sport Loft in SLC.  It's not easy stuff to get, the stuff they get is from Europe and they have about 5 different density foams.

I'd try your local boot fitters. I know SVST used to sell some back in the day but I think they do wholesale only. 

I have no local boot fitter. 

I'm going to have to dig deeper online. Or... make concessions. 

I'd like to eliminate some heel lift. The Jbars I've tried seem to just create pressure points and it ain't worth it... but maybe I need to rethink it.

This post was modified 1 week  ago by c.fuzzy

donuts


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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12/11/2018 8:46 am  

@c-fuzzy

What's your local?

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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(@notmikebuckley)
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12/11/2018 8:54 am  

The C shaped inserts from Tognar eliminated heel lift in all the boots I’ve used them in.. cheap fix.

https://www.tognar.com/ankle-wrap-pads-pair/

skier


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c.fuzzy
(@c-fuzzy)
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12/11/2018 9:04 am  
Posted by: pow_hnd

@c-fuzzy

What's your local?

Fox Valley WI

donuts


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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12/11/2018 10:08 am  
Posted by: c.fuzzy
Posted by: pow_hnd

@c-fuzzy

What's your local?

Fox Valley WI

I'll stop into the shop that has sold me the foam in past this week and see if they've got any they're willing to part with right now.  They may not be stocked up quite yet, so we'll see what happens. 

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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12/11/2018 10:15 am  

Fresh off 2 knee surgeries and 3 seperate procedures this summer, my new custom DonJoy showed up today.

 

IMG 1758

This post was modified 1 week  ago by pow_hnd

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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12/11/2018 12:06 pm  

Also new today is Spark hardware for the split. Their new tail/nose clips and Crossbar clips. I can't wait to get out on this split. The new Arc Pro bindings along with this deck being shorter than all my other splits will make this the lightest split I've ever had.

 

IMG 1759

IMG 1760

IMG 1761

IMG 1762

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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