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tierarzt
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18/03/2019 1:41 pm  
Posted by: Mig
Posted by: Tom

This is the one thing that puts me off actually. I already have a 254 waist board. If I am getting this as a legit euro-carving board, should I actually go wider? Like say get the 160 wide at 263 waist? 

Definitely go with a wider one.

So this is my dilemma. Do I get this as a long effective-edge, super-stable, super-fast 'regular' board (162 254waist) or as a pure euro-carve board (160 wide 263waist)? Bear in mind I've not yet ridden anything wide enough to euro-carve on, so it's not like I even know how. 


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Spenser
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18/03/2019 1:49 pm  

Hard to say. On one hand, if you don’t give boards like these what they want, they likely are not going to feel very fun, so the extra width may not be a good thing. On the other hand, if you do give them the right input, it’s hard to explain how great the feeling is. And really, the main factor in my opinion is speed. I can tip the blade up high on edge, but I also don’t have to. I can ride more relaxed as far as board angle and how hard I turn, as long as I continue to go fast. I don’t notice the width at all. It just feels right.

If you’re not sure, but you think you’re up to it, they can bring out that style in your riding  because they more or less require it in order to be brought to life. I definitely lean toward suggesting a wider waist, assuming you are really looking for a board like this, and not just a “normal” board with more edge. The width is party of the package. ~265 isn’t really that wide anyway..

I typically choose the blade when the groomers are great and everything else is kind of crappy. Some days, I am not feeling up to dedicated fast carving, but rather I just feel like dinking around on a normal board, finding things to slash and pop off, but the blade will make you get into it even if you don’t want to, hah.

It can be hard to relate the specialized feeling to someone who has never ridden anything like it. At the very least, they are fun to try, even if you don’t end up wanting to keep the board around. I only ride the blade a few times a season, but I would say it stands out of my quiver more than anything else I have, and when conditions are right, it’s the only choice.

I see a good handful of things in this video that I need to correct and improve upon, but this is just casual, comfortable cruising on the blade, on a pretty moderate slope (the Eaglecrest media guy wanted filler shots...)

This post was modified 1 month ago 5 times by Spenser

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tierarzt
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18/03/2019 1:54 pm  

Yeah I think my 08 cambered Trice actually forced me to learn to carve. It was just wide enough (258), plus the slightly weird magnetraction sensation, that skidding turns felt weird and tiring. Carving was just easier and less effort. 


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Mig
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18/03/2019 1:55 pm  
Posted by: Elektropow

Aren't boardercross boards relatively narrow to the modern "trendy" fatties?

I don't think boardercross boards are designed to be actual specialized carving boards. They are doing more pumping, gliding and flying then carving. There's only about half a dozen turns on a bx course, even less sometimes, and they are usually all banked. So a lot less board angulation (and a lot bigger sidecut radius) is needed to carve these turns at high speed than freecarving on a "flat" groomer. Plus most of the racers are using custom made boards (custom width), and very often with risers (like the Apex Gecko Stealth plates) that allow them to maintain a narrower width for quicker edge change.

~6' or 182cm | way too fat | US 10.5 - Mondo 28.5
Quiver: Fullbag boards 154 to 181 cm | powder/carving/snowsurf
Boots: Burton Driver X with Scarpa Plus Fit High Liners and custom powerstrap
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Spenser
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18/03/2019 2:00 pm  

Excellent points, Mig. I think that is important to remember… these aren’t actual bdx decks, they are made for freecarving, inspired by bdx shapes to whatever degree.

So maybe, the regular width alpha is more bdx, while the wides are freecarvers 😜 I don’t know


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MarkusM
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18/03/2019 2:11 pm  

for a winter like im having here i wish i had a blade or something similar. 

i cant even imagine how much fun it would be.

 


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Elektropow
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18/03/2019 2:13 pm  
Posted by: Spenser
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser

Yeah, 162 would be my pick as well.

It should be noted that at the speed you will ride a board like that, you won’t really notice a wider waist. I’m surprised it’s that narrow on a model like that. Even with size 9s, you can easily boot out when you are actually carving at a steep angle on a normal/narrow waist. But, that’s not what most people are doing I guess 😜

At super high speeds I doubt many will be able to carve at steep enough angles to notice apart from people with really big feet. Aren't boardercross boards relatively narrow to the modern "trendy" fatties? Don't get me wrong, I love not to get bootout and get my nipples to the ground as much as the next guy, but just thinking application wise.

I've yet to find a board I can hit 50+ mph and get that low to boot out on a narrower board... Shit skill probably!

True, but paired with a long sidecut that is comfortable carving at speeds like that, you can actually tip the board up pretty far when going super fast, if your legs are up for the G’s. You are carving harder, yet leaving a larger arc in the snow - the turn is happening over a long distance, rather than a short distance which could prevent you from carving hard that at high-speed. Medium speed and tight carves on a tight radius could be just as balanced as a very long sidecut at super high speed, because the board matches rider input in both cases, despite the riding itself being very different.

That’s the thing too… on decks like these, you hardly notice your speed or how hard you may be carving. You feel it much more on a traditional shape. Or, like that nitro 195 I was riding recently, it was crazy how little of the speed I actually felt. I swear I have never gone faster on groomers, yet it didn’t flinch and I barely felt it. There is just no replacement for having that much edge on a board designed for it… soo fun

its rad how casually you can get low to the ground without bending over. It’s just so comfortable and I’d say pretty easy... the angle/“getting low” is almost just a byproduct of riding the board fast. To stay balanced and stabile, your body pretty much needs to stay nice and sturdy, rather than hunching over to try to grab the ground, like most people following the carving trend. Doing the same on a “normal” board is significantly more difficult.

I get what you're saying, I really do. At speed a bigger board comes alive and you don't feel it. I kinda wanna experience the blade effect, even almost ordered the previous model with a different graphic couple years back. I'm 145lbs roughly with us8 boots and 5'11" but I can definitely handle a wider waist and ride with my whole body rather than just feet.

I can't recall the demo video from a couple years back from mig, but all the footy I've seen of the blade has pretty much been cruising down greens and blues, by euro alpine standard. It at least doesn't look fast, but looks super fun. I'm saying if you want to look like that doing the red slalom race courses down here, you don't necessarily need a wider waist. Cruising along with calculated turns, sure, but for some spontaneous decision making happens easier with a narrower waist.

What you're also describing are more like attributes to a cruisy style of riding, which isn't wrong, but I might have a stretch and say are from a completely different perspective. I'd really like to try a board like that down the steeps here in the french alps and see if I can maintain speed with swooping turns not losing control and eat shit. On most reds you hit 60mph in a few seconds and to,be honest, they're rarely in the kind of condition that you can just completely trust the surface and edge bite.

The blade probably cuts through chop pretty well?


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Spenser
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18/03/2019 2:15 pm  

If you can’t find one, or just aren’t sure if you want to go that specialized, see if you can find an older, long, cambered board for cheap. Recently I was looking at getting a supermodel 168 or 173, and I found a few options that were about $100 or less. Long edge, full camber, stiffer, and a slight taper are key factors.

For aggressive riding, we have mostly forgotten how good boards were back then, before everything was shorter and relatively softer.


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Elektropow
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18/03/2019 2:16 pm  
Posted by: Mig
Posted by: Elektropow

Aren't boardercross boards relatively narrow to the modern "trendy" fatties?

I don't think boardercross boards are designed to be actual specialized carving boards. They are doing more pumping, gliding and flying then carving. There's only about half a dozen turns on a bx course, even less sometimes, and they are usually all banked. So a lot less board angulation (and a lot bigger sidecut radius) is needed to carve these turns at high speed than freecarving on a "flat" groomer. Plus most of the racers are using custom made boards (custom width), and very often with risers (like the Apex Gecko Stealth plates) that allow them to maintain a narrower width for quicker edge change.

Yes! Fair enough.


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Spenser
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18/03/2019 2:20 pm  
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser

Yeah, 162 would be my pick as well.

It should be noted that at the speed you will ride a board like that, you won’t really notice a wider waist. I’m surprised it’s that narrow on a model like that. Even with size 9s, you can easily boot out when you are actually carving at a steep angle on a normal/narrow waist. But, that’s not what most people are doing I guess 😜

At super high speeds I doubt many will be able to carve at steep enough angles to notice apart from people with really big feet. Aren't boardercross boards relatively narrow to the modern "trendy" fatties? Don't get me wrong, I love not to get bootout and get my nipples to the ground as much as the next guy, but just thinking application wise.

I've yet to find a board I can hit 50+ mph and get that low to boot out on a narrower board... Shit skill probably!

True, but paired with a long sidecut that is comfortable carving at speeds like that, you can actually tip the board up pretty far when going super fast, if your legs are up for the G’s. You are carving harder, yet leaving a larger arc in the snow - the turn is happening over a long distance, rather than a short distance which could prevent you from carving hard that at high-speed. Medium speed and tight carves on a tight radius could be just as balanced as a very long sidecut at super high speed, because the board matches rider input in both cases, despite the riding itself being very different.

That’s the thing too… on decks like these, you hardly notice your speed or how hard you may be carving. You feel it much more on a traditional shape. Or, like that nitro 195 I was riding recently, it was crazy how little of the speed I actually felt. I swear I have never gone faster on groomers, yet it didn’t flinch and I barely felt it. There is just no replacement for having that much edge on a board designed for it… soo fun

its rad how casually you can get low to the ground without bending over. It’s just so comfortable and I’d say pretty easy... the angle/“getting low” is almost just a byproduct of riding the board fast. To stay balanced and stabile, your body pretty much needs to stay nice and sturdy, rather than hunching over to try to grab the ground, like most people following the carving trend. Doing the same on a “normal” board is significantly more difficult.

I get what you're saying, I really do. At speed a bigger board comes alive and you don't feel it. I kinda wanna experience the blade effect, even almost ordered the previous model with a different graphic couple years back. I'm 145lbs roughly with us8 boots and 5'11" but I can definitely handle a wider waist and ride with my whole body rather than just feet.

I can't recall the demo video from a couple years back from mig, but all the footy I've seen of the blade has pretty much been cruising down greens and blues, by euro alpine standard. It at least doesn't look fast, but looks super fun. I'm saying if you want to look like that doing the red slalom race courses down here, you don't necessarily need a wider waist. Cruising along with calculated turns, sure, but for some spontaneous decision making happens easier with a narrower waist.

What you're also describing are more like attributes to a cruisy style of riding, which isn't wrong, but I might have a stretch and say are from a completely different perspective. I'd really like to try a board like that down the steeps here in the french alps and see if I can maintain speed with swooping turns not losing control and eat shit. On most reds you hit 60mph in a few seconds and to,be honest, they're rarely in the kind of condition that you can just completely trust the surface and edge bite.

The blade probably cuts through chop pretty well?

I see what you’re saying. To your point, the blade is super comfortable on mild slopes like that, but it still wants speed. There is one run in particular here that is on the steeper side, and I have taken the blade there a few times. It definitely increases the G force, so you need stronger legs, but if you are up to it, you can get quite aggressive.  You would definitely want to make sure you complete your turns all the way across the hill, but within that, you sure build up a lot of speed. Pretty rad feeling. 

I think that most of the videos you see of the blade are on very mellow slopes because they are in Quebec, hah. In my case, the two clips I have of me riding it are on the same slope, which is a bit steeper than the stuff they have, but a perfect place for it - it has enough angle to go fast, and is also a very wide, smooth run.

For a truly steep run like you describe, I’m not totally sure what I would want, maybe just something with an even larger radius like the Nidecker gun 171, with a 10m radius. The radius plays a huge role in the amount of speed and carving-angle the board can be truly comfortable at. Makes me think of that huge nitro. Even more than the blade, it really requires speed to be anything but a giant boat, but if you give it what it wants, it’s totally insane. I took it on our steep groomed run and have never felt anything like it.

As for chop, I don’t ride the blade outside of smooth groomers. Definitely not what it is made for. That’s another reason I suggest someone is honest with their riding before getting something specialized like that… If you want something with a lot of edge to carve really well and give a new sensation, but you are also going to ride variable terrain, I would choose something else.  On the fullbag note, although they are different rides, the hammerhead would be a great choice for that, as an example. Lots of edge and an aggressive ride for excellent carving, but very usable all over the mountain.

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by Spenser

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Elektropow
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18/03/2019 2:23 pm  
Posted by: Spenser

If you can’t find one, or just aren’t sure if you want to go that specialized, see if you can find an older, long, cambered board for cheap. Recently I was looking at getting a supermodel 168 or 173, and I found a few options that were about $100 or less. Long edge, full camber, stiffer, and a slight taper are key factors.

For aggressive riding, we have mostly forgotten how good boards were back then, before everything was shorter and relatively softer.

Saw a guy on nitro naturals. If he was a seasonaire I'd have suggested a swap.

Oh! To the easy lean over part: the omg center rocker Aether lets me do that easily in any snow conditions. Really cool feeling. Don't have to bend over, unless you want to pump some. But you can just lean into the carve legs almost straight and upper body actually bending backwards all temple cummings style.


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Elektropow
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18/03/2019 2:29 pm  
Posted by: Spenser
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser

Yeah, 162 would be my pick as well.

It should be noted that at the speed you will ride a board like that, you won’t really notice a wider waist. I’m surprised it’s that narrow on a model like that. Even with size 9s, you can easily boot out when you are actually carving at a steep angle on a normal/narrow waist. But, that’s not what most people are doing I guess 😜

At super high speeds I doubt many will be able to carve at steep enough angles to notice apart from people with really big feet. Aren't boardercross boards relatively narrow to the modern "trendy" fatties? Don't get me wrong, I love not to get bootout and get my nipples to the ground as much as the next guy, but just thinking application wise.

I've yet to find a board I can hit 50+ mph and get that low to boot out on a narrower board... Shit skill probably!

True, but paired with a long sidecut that is comfortable carving at speeds like that, you can actually tip the board up pretty far when going super fast, if your legs are up for the G’s. You are carving harder, yet leaving a larger arc in the snow - the turn is happening over a long distance, rather than a short distance which could prevent you from carving hard that at high-speed. Medium speed and tight carves on a tight radius could be just as balanced as a very long sidecut at super high speed, because the board matches rider input in both cases, despite the riding itself being very different.

That’s the thing too… on decks like these, you hardly notice your speed or how hard you may be carving. You feel it much more on a traditional shape. Or, like that nitro 195 I was riding recently, it was crazy how little of the speed I actually felt. I swear I have never gone faster on groomers, yet it didn’t flinch and I barely felt it. There is just no replacement for having that much edge on a board designed for it… soo fun

its rad how casually you can get low to the ground without bending over. It’s just so comfortable and I’d say pretty easy... the angle/“getting low” is almost just a byproduct of riding the board fast. To stay balanced and stabile, your body pretty much needs to stay nice and sturdy, rather than hunching over to try to grab the ground, like most people following the carving trend. Doing the same on a “normal” board is significantly more difficult.

I get what you're saying, I really do. At speed a bigger board comes alive and you don't feel it. I kinda wanna experience the blade effect, even almost ordered the previous model with a different graphic couple years back. I'm 145lbs roughly with us8 boots and 5'11" but I can definitely handle a wider waist and ride with my whole body rather than just feet.

I can't recall the demo video from a couple years back from mig, but all the footy I've seen of the blade has pretty much been cruising down greens and blues, by euro alpine standard. It at least doesn't look fast, but looks super fun. I'm saying if you want to look like that doing the red slalom race courses down here, you don't necessarily need a wider waist. Cruising along with calculated turns, sure, but for some spontaneous decision making happens easier with a narrower waist.

What you're also describing are more like attributes to a cruisy style of riding, which isn't wrong, but I might have a stretch and say are from a completely different perspective. I'd really like to try a board like that down the steeps here in the french alps and see if I can maintain speed with swooping turns not losing control and eat shit. On most reds you hit 60mph in a few seconds and to,be honest, they're rarely in the kind of condition that you can just completely trust the surface and edge bite.

The blade probably cuts through chop pretty well?

I see what you’re saying. To your point, the blade is super comfortable on mild slopes like that, but it still wants speed. There is one run in particular here that is on the steeper side, and I have taken the blade there a few times. It definitely increases the G force, so you need stronger legs, but if you are up to it, you can get quite aggressive.  You would definitely want to make sure you complete your turns all the way across the hill, but within that, you sure build up a lot of speed. Pretty rad feeling. 

I think that most of the videos you see of the blade are on very mellow slopes because they are in Quebec, hah. In my case, the two clips I have of me riding it are on that same slope, which is a bit steeper than the stuff they have, but a perfect place for it - it has enough angle to go fast, and is also a very wide, smooth run.

I don't think I'd want to generate speed (at the steeper bits, to our standards), more like keep the speed under control without skidding turns! I always finish my turns properly and the g's and gaining more speed out of a turn is a rad feeling. But do you think keeping the speed in check is something that's doable with the blade on super steep stuff?


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Mig
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18/03/2019 2:37 pm  
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser
Posted by: Elektropow
Posted by: Spenser

Yeah, 162 would be my pick as well.

It should be noted that at the speed you will ride a board like that, you won’t really notice a wider waist. I’m surprised it’s that narrow on a model like that. Even with size 9s, you can easily boot out when you are actually carving at a steep angle on a normal/narrow waist. But, that’s not what most people are doing I guess

At super high speeds I doubt many will be able to carve at steep enough angles to notice apart from people with really big feet. Aren't boardercross boards relatively narrow to the modern "trendy" fatties? Don't get me wrong, I love not to get bootout and get my nipples to the ground as much as the next guy, but just thinking application wise.

I've yet to find a board I can hit 50+ mph and get that low to boot out on a narrower board... Shit skill probably!

True, but paired with a long sidecut that is comfortable carving at speeds like that, you can actually tip the board up pretty far when going super fast, if your legs are up for the G’s. You are carving harder, yet leaving a larger arc in the snow - the turn is happening over a long distance, rather than a short distance which could prevent you from carving hard that at high-speed. Medium speed and tight carves on a tight radius could be just as balanced as a very long sidecut at super high speed, because the board matches rider input in both cases, despite the riding itself being very different.

That’s the thing too… on decks like these, you hardly notice your speed or how hard you may be carving. You feel it much more on a traditional shape. Or, like that nitro 195 I was riding recently, it was crazy how little of the speed I actually felt. I swear I have never gone faster on groomers, yet it didn’t flinch and I barely felt it. There is just no replacement for having that much edge on a board designed for it… soo fun

its rad how casually you can get low to the ground without bending over. It’s just so comfortable and I’d say pretty easy... the angle/“getting low” is almost just a byproduct of riding the board fast. To stay balanced and stabile, your body pretty much needs to stay nice and sturdy, rather than hunching over to try to grab the ground, like most people following the carving trend. Doing the same on a “normal” board is significantly more difficult.

I get what you're saying, I really do. At speed a bigger board comes alive and you don't feel it. I kinda wanna experience the blade effect, even almost ordered the previous model with a different graphic couple years back. I'm 145lbs roughly with us8 boots and 5'11" but I can definitely handle a wider waist and ride with my whole body rather than just feet.

I can't recall the demo video from a couple years back from mig, but all the footy I've seen of the blade has pretty much been cruising down greens and blues, by euro alpine standard. It at least doesn't look fast, but looks super fun. I'm saying if you want to look like that doing the red slalom race courses down here, you don't necessarily need a wider waist. Cruising along with calculated turns, sure, but for some spontaneous decision making happens easier with a narrower waist.

What you're also describing are more like attributes to a cruisy style of riding, which isn't wrong, but I might have a stretch and say are from a completely different perspective. I'd really like to try a board like that down the steeps here in the french alps and see if I can maintain speed with swooping turns not losing control and eat shit. On most reds you hit 60mph in a few seconds and to,be honest, they're rarely in the kind of condition that you can just completely trust the surface and edge bite.

The blade probably cuts through chop pretty well?

It was probably this one:

This one has a little bit more "aggressive" and faster riding:

 

 

~6' or 182cm | way too fat | US 10.5 - Mondo 28.5
Quiver: Fullbag boards 154 to 181 cm | powder/carving/snowsurf
Boots: Burton Driver X with Scarpa Plus Fit High Liners and custom powerstrap
Bindings: Ride El Hefe | Now Drive


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Spenser
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18/03/2019 2:38 pm  

I think that due to its design, the blade is going to be a board that more-so wants to keep ripping fast and generating speed. It likes bigger arcs.

If I wanted to ride a steep groomed slope on a board that carves really well, but one that would help me turn in such a way that I was managing speed, I would probably stick to my squash or something more traditional.

On the totally opposite end of the spectrum, I rode the same slope on the Libtech short-fat, and it was honestly one of my favorites. I felt like I could carve at a steep angle, and was really comfortable, but the turns were different. It would take a little longer to get from top to bottom, but I would make a lot more turns, still going fast, but it was much better at managing rather than racing, if that makes sense.

I’ve said it before, but that board fucked up my understanding of some things. You could find examples, but in general, it would be hard to compare two boards that were so wildly different. A pretty stiff, long, long-edge, big radius board like the blade… vs a 146 with 286 waist, and I think a 5.8m radius… probably my two favorite boards for specifically carving that I have ever ridden. I still don’t quite understand that short fat.

This post was modified 1 month ago by Spenser

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optionrider
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18/03/2019 8:54 pm  

@spenser wow man thank you for all the input. From the sounds of it, at my size I should go for a 158 or 160. I have 9.5 boots. Reason I was looking to go smaller is because I want to be able to daily this or least ride it the majority of the time and I think anything longer than a 158 would become unwieldy for me. Putting things into context, I ride Whistler mostly and daily a Spring Break Twin because I like softer boards that can hold an edge and mostly like to either do groomers or dick around side hits or hit the glades. Most days that would be good for carving likely wouldn't be great for glades anyway and I imagine a board with this kind of sidecut wouldn't do too well with quick turns in the trees? Though Max Jenke did say in an interview that he could see people using the Alpha in the park so it can't be that difficult to maneuver. Do you have experience with your Diamond Blade in glades or the park? The plan for me would be to pair the Alpha with Ultras or FCs for groomer days and use the Twin with my old Airblaster inverters for pow days until I can find a Slush Slasher on the cheap. Do you think that would be reasonable use for the Alpha 58?

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