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Lonz
 Lonz
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04/09/2019 9:07 am  

Not as much as it did on old, stiff camber boards.  I sharpened my edges almost all the way around on my old T6 back in the day and it made it a catchy death sled.  That's how I learned about detuning my contacts.  These days, early-rise profiles would let one get away with that much more.

I only aggressively tune two boards regularly, my Hammer Head and my Jasey-Jay carver.  I do think it makes a big difference, but that could admittedly just be some kind of placebo effect.  I really enjoy tuning, so there is definitely a part of me that wants to notice it making a difference.

I follow the scheme outlined by Dupraz, with Zone 1 detuned, a 90° side bevel for Zone 2, and an 88° bevel for Zone 3. 


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ivo
 ivo
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04/09/2019 10:57 am  

^ That's quite complicated and I'm sure it makes a difference, in general.

I notice a big difference in edge hold, but I often hit hard snow, based on where I ride. Stopped messing with bevel on my regular boards several years ago, but do plan to play with it on my new Kilroy 3D after I see how it rides from the factory.


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matty
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04/09/2019 11:38 am  

General edge tuning is something that I try to stay on top of for edge hold on groomers. I just try to use a gummy stone and diamond stone/file to get rid of burrs and then a few passes every now and again with a simple pocket file to keep things moderately sharp. I can definitely feel it when there are a bunch of burrs or when the edges get dull.

Variable edge tuning/detuning helps me to fine-tune the feel of the edge hold through the turn. On a couple of boards, I have started to more aggressively sharpen the contact points in the tail in order to get a more locked-in feeling when carving towards the end of each turn. On my Supermacho, I aggressively de-tuned the tail contact points so as to not feel so locked-in, as it felt too aggressive for me.

This post was modified 1 month ago by matty

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Bopuc
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05/09/2019 4:26 am  

It should come as no surprise that there is a whole culture of super high-end board tuning service in Japan (upwards of a hundred bucks!) where the edges get attention as if they were 800 year old katana blades. Buffed to a mirror shine, I tells ya.

Like this guy (does the official Gentem "factory" tuning)

http://t-tune.p2.bindsite.jp/t-tune/MENU.html


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awd1105
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05/09/2019 6:08 am  

If you consider yourself a master at a particular skill, it's almost certain that there's a Japanese person who can do it better.

Ontario | Boots: Driver X | Bindings: Genesis X, Union Progress FC | Boards: CaféRacer & CaféRacer+ 159 / Pencil 164 / LandLord 163


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89c51
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05/09/2019 6:24 am  
Posted by: awd1105

If you consider yourself a master at a particular skill, it's almost certain that there's a Japanese person who can do it better.

The moment i saw people advertise/use edge wax and snowsurf specific waxes i stopped taking those people seriously.

After all is said and done the people that are the most demanding in their tuning performing the best possible are ski downhill athletes (where failure/success is measured in ms) and not some random dude carving slowly in a perfectly groomed low angle slope. And we know what their tuning techniques are and what products they use.


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awd1105
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05/09/2019 10:25 am  

Oh, their pursuit of perfection in niche skills/crafts can be comical, for sure. 

Still, kinda admirable in some ways. 

Ontario | Boots: Driver X | Bindings: Genesis X, Union Progress FC | Boards: CaféRacer & CaféRacer+ 159 / Pencil 164 / LandLord 163


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Elektropow
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05/09/2019 2:18 pm  
Posted by: c.fuzzy
Posted by: Elektropow

Ha! I have the first year edition. I think the core profile is like 0,5 cm thinner than on the current model. It's also lighter and quite flexible. Been using it for freeride missions last season which got the edges so bad it wouldn't hold aggressive carves that well. I did have it machine ground and it's ace again, but something more aggressive twin style full camber would be on another level for what I'm looking to do with it. But even though the kazu is tapered I can push that tail quite well. Switch carves are ok but you have to weigh it a bit different.

Do you guys really find tuning your edges doing enough to be noticeable. I use a pocket tuner if I get some edge gnar but I can't say I notice the fresh tune very much or anything different with degrees of bevel. Though, perhaps if I were riding bigger mtns and icier conditions I'd pay more attention. idk. 

In freeride missions in the Alps unless you're lucky or doing pristine conditions only, you're going to be dealing with deep dents that are a bitch to fix. Basically you need to grind through either the sidewall or base material to do it. On the kazu, there were deep dents on both sides almost through the whole length of the board. Otherwise and all other boards are always good to go with a pocket sharpener with angles and a Medium to fine grit diamond file if one likes good finalizing touches. Sometimes I just deburr with a stone or rubber stone.


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89c51
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05/09/2019 2:47 pm  
Posted by: awd1105

Oh, their pursuit of perfection in niche skills/crafts can be comical, for sure. 

Still, kinda admirable in some ways. 

Oh don't get me wrong i really like their approach to perfecting stuff. It seems to be embedded in the Japanese culture. They are masters in many things and i have deep respect for that.

Its just that there is a line between selling snake oil and doing something really good.


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SG Boarder
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05/09/2019 7:00 pm  
Posted by: 89c51
Posted by: awd1105

If you consider yourself a master at a particular skill, it's almost certain that there's a Japanese person who can do it better.

The moment i saw people advertise/use edge wax and snowsurf specific waxes i stopped taking those people seriously.

After all is said and done the people that are the most demanding in their tuning performing the best possible are ski downhill athletes (where failure/success is measured in ms) and not some random dude carving slowly in a perfectly groomed low angle slope. And we know what their tuning techniques are and what products they use.

And interestingly the vast majority of those guys do very little. Certainly less than the average snowboarder. Most do a wax 3-4x in a season and a quick brush every morning. Some do SFA.


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matty
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06/09/2019 11:13 am  
Posted by: SG Boarder
Posted by: 89c51
Posted by: awd1105

If you consider yourself a master at a particular skill, it's almost certain that there's a Japanese person who can do it better.

The moment i saw people advertise/use edge wax and snowsurf specific waxes i stopped taking those people seriously.

After all is said and done the people that are the most demanding in their tuning performing the best possible are ski downhill athletes (where failure/success is measured in ms) and not some random dude carving slowly in a perfectly groomed low angle slope. And we know what their tuning techniques are and what products they use.

And interestingly the vast majority of those guys do very little. Certainly less than the average snowboarder. Most do a wax 3-4x in a season and a quick brush every morning. Some do SFA.

Not sure what you're referring to? As far as I'm aware, downhill ski racers at the World Cup/Olympics level have wax techs who wax their skis with crazy exotic waxes and powder overlays that cost astronomical amounts of money. They use hot boxes to "infuse" the ski base with "base prep" wax and use paper in between the waxing iron and the ski base so as to add protection from the iron's heat when they then use temp- and humidity-specific wax and overlays. They obsess over whether or not the snow is "new" or "old" and sharpen and re-sharpen the edges to samurai sword sharpness so that they can hold onto a turn at 60+ mph on a rutted, icy pitch. They have multiple pairs of skis and wax their practice skis every day and their race skis for every run. Even junior ski racers are known to wax their skis between heats. I know several families with kids in the PNW ski race circuit, and they have $100s of dollars in crazy waxes that they bring to the hill with them and $1000s of dollars of wax and tools back home. If it wasn't for ski racers, all that would be sold would be cheap all-temp.

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by matty

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drjcv
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06/09/2019 8:58 pm  

he said snowboarders, so i bet he meant the snow surfer guys


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SG Boarder
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07/09/2019 2:29 am  
Posted by: matty
Posted by: SG Boarder
Posted by: 89c51
Posted by: awd1105

If you consider yourself a master at a particular skill, it's almost certain that there's a Japanese person who can do it better.

The moment i saw people advertise/use edge wax and snowsurf specific waxes i stopped taking those people seriously.

After all is said and done the people that are the most demanding in their tuning performing the best possible are ski downhill athletes (where failure/success is measured in ms) and not some random dude carving slowly in a perfectly groomed low angle slope. And we know what their tuning techniques are and what products they use.

And interestingly the vast majority of those guys do very little. Certainly less than the average snowboarder. Most do a wax 3-4x in a season and a quick brush every morning. Some do SFA.

Not sure what you're referring to? As far as I'm aware, downhill ski racers at the World Cup/Olympics level have wax techs who wax their skis with crazy exotic waxes and powder overlays that cost astronomical amounts of money. They use hot boxes to "infuse" the ski base with "base prep" wax and use paper in between the waxing iron and the ski base so as to add protection from the iron's heat when they then use temp- and humidity-specific wax and overlays. They obsess over whether or not the snow is "new" or "old" and sharpen and re-sharpen the edges to samurai sword sharpness so that they can hold onto a turn at 60+ mph on a rutted, icy pitch. They have multiple pairs of skis and wax their practice skis every day and their race skis for every run. Even junior ski racers are known to wax their skis between heats. I know several families with kids in the PNW ski race circuit, and they have $100s of dollars in crazy waxes that they bring to the hill with them and $1000s of dollars of wax and tools back home. If it wasn't for ski racers, all that would be sold would be cheap all-temp.

Posted by: drjcv

he said snowboarders, so i bet he meant the snow surfer guys

I meant both. On the 'aspirational' part of the spectrum (again both for snowboarders and ski racers) there is lots of excitement about waxing, base structures blahblah

At the world cup level almost nobody cares or people realize that it makes no difference.


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89c51
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07/09/2019 5:52 am  

In interviews/videos etc of WC techs they said that many athletes don't change structures much or at all through the season. As for wax they use the expensive stuff and try to keep sharp polished edges (fine diamond stone).


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RK
 RK
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10/09/2019 1:17 pm  

has anyone ridden the elevated shortboard?  i'm really interested in this design despite the obnoxious marketing and asinine use of imperial units.  

6'4" | 215 lbs | 11-11.5 boots
PNW


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