Official Union Bindings thread.  

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Elektropow
(@elektropow)
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20/11/2018 2:23 am  

Yeah, I always liked that about Burton highbacks too. I tend to also only rotate the highbacks on the front binding. 

Got to fondle some Stratas though and they are sexy. Might give Unions a chance at some point..


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nmb
 nmb
(@notmikebuckley)
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20/11/2018 8:05 am  

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

skier


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Mr. Irrelevant
(@lilteichmonster)
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20/11/2018 8:21 am  

are burton or union highbacks pre-rotated at all? i know my now's are. i don't rotate so i never paid attention to whether or not B or U bindings are

5'9" | 185 lbs | US9 boots (K2 TT) | Now - Drive & YES. | Gnu Beast 158 | YES. 420 148 | Arbor Clovis 157 | Camber, S-Rocker, Flat to Rocker | 150cm-160cm | Some Taper | Neat shapes are neat


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F1EA
 F1EA
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20/11/2018 9:14 am  
Posted by: Velvet Hammer
Posted by: SG Boarder
Posted by: awd1105
Posted by: MikeHoncho

These things are dope!

 

088E6F4B FC4B 4F60 81DC 17E43642CA7F
15EE4F21 1D1A 4366 9E0A 7052A28E1C3F
B9DA0934 BBB1 49C8 9055 A98BFE12727F
E407EF90 A554 4B95 898F 7933796F285B

I forgot that C3 doesn't ship to Canada... does anyone in Canada have a line on a pair of these? I really, really want them for my Koruas.

Best solution: Don't rotate the highbacks. They are not intended to be and it does nothing to improve performance (unless you have a very odd boot-binding fit).

Posted by: Mischa

Take a dremel to it... ^.^

Or that. Or do the heating/bending thing.

Making excuses for a company's piss poor design is not a good answer. Are the extra holes added for weight savings? This has been a problem since year one.

I read this on EZ and it is true for me. 

If you land in the back seat and you do not have your high backs rotated your toe side edge will lift as your are applying unintended pressure to the heel edge. 
Now if you always land bolts good for you, buy union. 

But stop with the excuses for union. They have a poor design that should be fixed or change the molds on the highbacks to have one hole on each side if they are not intended to be rotated.

Union doesn't need design. They're core.


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matty
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20/11/2018 9:47 am  

I just ride Unions because they're more comfortable for me and provide a more seamless connection to my board. I have run a stance that has varied from +18/-6 to +24/+6 since I switched to Unions. I run 2 notches of forward lean on my front binding and three on my back binding. I have not noticed any difference from rotating or not rotating my highbacks, but I similarly am not that sensitive to variations in stance width (my stance ranges anywhere between 23 and 24.5 inches depending on the board).

I think that Burton unquestionably allows for more micro-adjustment of forward lean and highback rotation. If that is important to your set-up, then Burton is probably your best choice.


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MikeHoncho
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20/11/2018 10:35 am  
Posted by: nmb

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

Yea man, I get it.  If this were just an aesthetic thing it wouldn’t be as big of an issue (still janky though), but my boot literally doesn’t fit in the heelcup if its rotated.  As it is, the heelcup is super tight normally.

I’ll be the first to admit, after all these years I’m a noob with anything other then Burton but these Union heelcups are so f’ing tight.  I ride a 9 boot, and I almost feel like a Medium is too small.  Can’t imagine what its going to be like with snowpack...

This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by MikeHoncho

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matty
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20/11/2018 10:55 am  
Posted by: MikeHoncho
Posted by: nmb

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

Yea man, I get it.  If this were just an aesthetic thing it wouldn’t be as big of an issue (still janky though), but my boot literally doesn’t fit in the heelcup if its rotated.  As it is, the heelcup is super tight normally.

I’ll be the first to admit, after all these years I’m a noob with anything other then Burton but these Union heelcups are so f’ing tight.  I ride a 9 boot, and I almost feel like a Medium is too small.  Can’t imagine what its going to be like with snowpack...

What boots are you riding? I haven't had an issue with size 13 Nike, Burton, or Salomon in a large Union binding, but I did notice that the size 13 thirtytwo TM-2 was pretty snug.


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Wes B.
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20/11/2018 11:04 am  
Posted by: matty
Posted by: MikeHoncho
Posted by: nmb

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

Yea man, I get it.  If this were just an aesthetic thing it wouldn’t be as big of an issue (still janky though), but my boot literally doesn’t fit in the heelcup if its rotated.  As it is, the heelcup is super tight normally.

I’ll be the first to admit, after all these years I’m a noob with anything other then Burton but these Union heelcups are so f’ing tight.  I ride a 9 boot, and I almost feel like a Medium is too small.  Can’t imagine what its going to be like with snowpack...

What boots are you riding? I haven't had an issue with size 13 Nike, Burton, or Salomon in a large Union binding, but I did notice that the size 13 thirtytwo TM-2 was pretty snug.

Curious as well bc my Medium Forces have a wider heelcup than my Medium Genesis reflex.

Iirc, my Vans Infuse 9.5 doesn't sit all the way back in the Genesis and that binding does leave marks on either side of the boots' heel counters. They fit fine in my Unions.

My old Burton Imperials have a noticeably narrower heel than the Vans and fit perfectly in the Genesis, as expected.


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F1EA
 F1EA
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20/11/2018 11:12 am  
Posted by: MikeHoncho
Posted by: nmb

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

Yea man, I get it.  If this were just an aesthetic thing it wouldn’t be as big of an issue (still janky though), but my boot literally doesn’t fit in the heelcup if its rotated.  As it is, the heelcup is super tight normally.

I’ll be the first to admit, after all these years I’m a noob with anything other then Burton but these Union heelcups are so f’ing tight.  I ride a 9 boot, and I almost feel like a Medium is too small.  Can’t imagine what its going to be like with snowpack...

The older Now heelcup was pretty tight, but still I was able to use the L with US11 ThirtyTwo which are pretty bulky.

 

Highback rotation is more important in 'shaped' highbacks. Flat highbacks or torsionally soft... are no reall issue.

Ride Capo is pretty flat. The Union Strata is also quite flat, and pretty torsionally flexy but stiff to the heel. Atlas highback is also quite flat.

Most Burton bindings have a reasonably flat highback plus a lot of rotation adjustment. Not surprisingly, they're amongst the most comfortable around.

 

I don't really get the "pre rotated" thing. I'm on + + angles, so I'm assuming that's working further against me; yet, I have 0 issues on my two pairs of Now. That said, my Burtons are FAR more comfortable.

 

I'm probably buying Stratas, but it depends how the sizing works on my US10.5 Van's Verse and stance angles. Not sure if I should be M or L in Union....


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Elektropow
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20/11/2018 11:26 am  
Posted by: F1EA
Posted by: MikeHoncho
Posted by: nmb

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

Yea man, I get it.  If this were just an aesthetic thing it wouldn’t be as big of an issue (still janky though), but my boot literally doesn’t fit in the heelcup if its rotated.  As it is, the heelcup is super tight normally.

I’ll be the first to admit, after all these years I’m a noob with anything other then Burton but these Union heelcups are so f’ing tight.  I ride a 9 boot, and I almost feel like a Medium is too small.  Can’t imagine what its going to be like with snowpack...

The older Now heelcup was pretty tight, but still I was able to use the L with US11 ThirtyTwo which are pretty bulky.

 

Highback rotation is more important in 'shaped' highbacks. Flat highbacks or torsionally soft... are no reall issue.

Ride Capo is pretty flat. The Union Strata is also quite flat, and pretty torsionally flexy but stiff to the heel. Atlas highback is also quite flat.

Most Burton bindings have a reasonably flat highback plus a lot of rotation adjustment. Not surprisingly, they're amongst the most comfortable around.

 

I don't really get the "pre rotated" thing. I'm on + + angles, so I'm assuming that's working further against me; yet, I have 0 issues on my two pairs of Now. That said, my Burtons are FAR more comfortable.

 

I'm probably buying Stratas, but it depends how the sizing works on my US10.5 Van's Verse and stance angles. Not sure if I should be M or L in Union....

Dude! Checking out the verses as a main candidate for next boot. Quick review pls! Maybe flex comparison to burton ion, imperial or other "usual suspects"? I'd super duper appreciate it!


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yukiotokosama
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20/11/2018 12:12 pm  
Posted by: F1EA
Posted by: MikeHoncho
Posted by: nmb

I’ve rotated my highbacks on all my unions for 6-7 years and never had that little piece bother me..for 9/10 users it seems like a non issue.

Yea man, I get it.  If this were just an aesthetic thing it wouldn’t be as big of an issue (still janky though), but my boot literally doesn’t fit in the heelcup if its rotated.  As it is, the heelcup is super tight normally.

I’ll be the first to admit, after all these years I’m a noob with anything other then Burton but these Union heelcups are so f’ing tight.  I ride a 9 boot, and I almost feel like a Medium is too small.  Can’t imagine what its going to be like with snowpack...

The older Now heelcup was pretty tight, but still I was able to use the L with US11 ThirtyTwo which are pretty bulky.

 

Highback rotation is more important in 'shaped' highbacks. Flat highbacks or torsionally soft... are no reall issue.

Ride Capo is pretty flat. The Union Strata is also quite flat, and pretty torsionally flexy but stiff to the heel. Atlas highback is also quite flat.

Most Burton bindings have a reasonably flat highback plus a lot of rotation adjustment. Not surprisingly, they're amongst the most comfortable around.

 

I don't really get the "pre rotated" thing. I'm on + + angles, so I'm assuming that's working further against me; yet, I have 0 issues on my two pairs of Now. That said, my Burtons are FAR more comfortable.

 

I'm probably buying Stratas, but it depends how the sizing works on my US10.5 Van's Verse and stance angles. Not sure if I should be M or L in Union....

I have 10.5 Verse boots and large Stratas. I moved the heelcup in one position and they fit fine. The problem is the baseplate is so large and it's not adjustable. I get a little bit of toe ramp overhang on my front binding even on my Orca and that's pretty wide. I'm running +21 up front. 

We'll see how they work out and I can always just use them on my wider boards. I've never had much success with Union, but these intrigued me. I've got Vitas and Genesis, which are super reliable, so I'm not too concerned.


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SoyMateo
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20/11/2018 12:13 pm  

I think the base concept of rotating a hiback is being missed here.  Out of the box the vertical midline of the hiback is perpendicular to the horizontal midline of the baseplate.  Now imagine shifting your weight for a heel side carve.  Only in a 0 degree setup would that weight shift apply the most pressure edge to edge torsionally and not lose any of that edge-to-edge energy in the longitudinal direction of the board.  You are the most perpendicular to the edge that you can be in that scenario.  Now take that and apply it to a 21 or 24 degree front binding.  So if you lean straight back through the center of the heelcup, you are applying pressure longitudinally to the board toward the tail.    So in a positive angle situation (more likely more angle on the front unless you run more rear angle on your reverse taper board), you rotate the hiback toward the nose in the heel cup to make the top of the hiback more parallel to the heel edge of the board.  The idea here is that as you lean back the hiback connects your boot to the hiback at that more forward contact point of the boot and binding thus transferring more directly to the torsional aspect of the board and this give you more direct heel edge response and thus more response carving sooner.  I've always rotated my front hiback even with no forward lean.  It just always made sense to me.  I'm not married to it and got my first pair of Unions last week and didn't plan to rotate it for other reasons/experimentation.  But in any other binding that allows it I do it especially as I do not run any (or very little) lean on my front binding.

6'2 // 160lbs // 10.5-11.5 // Gentemstick Giant Manta // Moss PQ54 // CAxx


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matty
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20/11/2018 12:36 pm  
Posted by: SoyMateo

I think the base concept of rotating a hiback is being missed here.  Out of the box the vertical midline of the hiback is perpendicular to the horizontal midline of the baseplate.  Now imagine shifting your weight for a heel side carve.  Only in a 0 degree setup would that weight shift apply the most pressure edge to edge torsionally and not lose any of that edge-to-edge energy in the longitudinal direction of the board.  You are the most perpendicular to the edge that you can be in that scenario.  Now take that and apply it to a 21 or 24 degree front binding.  So if you lean straight back through the center of the heelcup, you are applying pressure longitudinally to the board toward the tail.    So in a positive angle situation (more likely more angle on the front unless you run more rear angle on your reverse taper board), you rotate the hiback toward the nose in the heel cup to make the top of the hiback more parallel to the heel edge of the board.  The idea here is that as you lean back the hiback connects your boot to the hiback at that more forward contact point of the boot and binding thus transferring more directly to the torsional aspect of the board and this give you more direct heel edge response and thus more response carving sooner.  I've always rotated my front hiback even with no forward lean.  It just always made sense to me.  I'm not married to it and got my first pair of Unions last week and didn't plan to rotate it for other reasons/experimentation.  But in any other binding that allows it I do it especially as I do not run any (or very little) lean on my front binding.

I think (and hope) that we're all familiar with the intended utility of rotating highbacks in terms of turning mechanics. For me, I just don't notice a change with rotated vs non-rotated highbacks on my gen 1 Atlas Superpros or my Force Teams. This may be due to a number of factors, and I certainly am not trying to deny that others might experience a very noticeable difference.


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Mr. Irrelevant
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20/11/2018 12:37 pm  
Posted by: SoyMateo

I think the base concept of rotating a hiback is being missed here.  Out of the box the vertical midline of the hiback is perpendicular to the horizontal midline of the baseplate.  Now imagine shifting your weight for a heel side carve.  Only in a 0 degree setup would that weight shift apply the most pressure edge to edge torsionally and not lose any of that edge-to-edge energy in the longitudinal direction of the board.  You are the most perpendicular to the edge that you can be in that scenario.  Now take that and apply it to a 21 or 24 degree front binding.  So if you lean straight back through the center of the heelcup, you are applying pressure longitudinally to the board toward the tail.    So in a positive angle situation (more likely more angle on the front unless you run more rear angle on your reverse taper board), you rotate the hiback toward the nose in the heel cup to make the top of the hiback more parallel to the heel edge of the board.  The idea here is that as you lean back the hiback connects your boot to the hiback at that more forward contact point of the boot and binding thus transferring more directly to the torsional aspect of the board and this give you more direct heel edge response and thus more response carving sooner.  I've always rotated my front hiback even with no forward lean.  It just always made sense to me.  I'm not married to it and got my first pair of Unions last week and didn't plan to rotate it for other reasons/experimentation.  But in any other binding that allows it I do it especially as I do not run any (or very little) lean on my front binding.

that was REALLY difficult to understand, but i'm pretty sure i follow! and it seems to make perfect sense to me for the front binding

5'9" | 185 lbs | US9 boots (K2 TT) | Now - Drive & YES. | Gnu Beast 158 | YES. 420 148 | Arbor Clovis 157 | Camber, S-Rocker, Flat to Rocker | 150cm-160cm | Some Taper | Neat shapes are neat


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SoyMateo
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20/11/2018 12:58 pm  

@matty, I was already planning to try some different setups with my new Atlas' versus my tried and true frankenVita's this season to see if I'm in the same boat as you with Unions.  I didn't rate my Flux last season because they were so darn responsive I didn't want anything more!

I'm not trying to stir the pot, it just seemed like there was a lot of apple/orange comparisons happening and I wasn't sure we were all talking about the pros/cons of the same tweak : )

6'2 // 160lbs // 10.5-11.5 // Gentemstick Giant Manta // Moss PQ54 // CAxx


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