The Wax and Tune your Ride Thread  

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89c51
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26/10/2018 2:08 am  
Posted by: SG Boarder
Posted by: rick b
Posted by: SG Boarder

Why on earth would it be a no-no? It doesn't really help much (other than keeping the wax soft ever so slightly longer) but it certainly doesn't do any harm.

i think i read it on tognar.com
"...never put the iron on a dry base"  or something

 

And why/how would it make any difference to the board whether the iron touches a dry base or has super thin layer of wax in between???

JFC people, think...

The purpose of passing a hot iron over a layer of wax is to drive wax into the base.


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rick b
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26/10/2018 6:26 am  

never heard anyone reco the 'rub the iron on the base with no wax on it' before

i'd wager that 99% of experienced wax technicians would say hey dont do that

#attack

This post was modified 3 weeks  ago by rick b

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nmb
 nmb
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26/10/2018 9:51 am  

Lol

skier


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matty
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26/10/2018 10:16 am  

I am not familiar with anyone who warms their base up with a waxing iron before putting wax on the base. My best guess is that it would hold little potential value, as the amount of heat transferred to the base when ironing-on the wax is sufficient on its own. I have also heard warnings about bases getting burnt if waxing irons are left too long in one spot, and it does make sense to me that the melted layer of wax between the iron and the base in typical waxing scenarios does somewhat mitigate the amount of heat transferred directly to the base material. If that is the case, then running a hot iron at typical waxing temperatures over a dry base seems to come with some potential risk of damaging that base.


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jerklin
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26/10/2018 10:17 am  

I just heard about that technique from someone who has more experience than I do so I listened. It was said to simply help warm the board up and make it easier to absorb wax. Could be bogus, who knows. I'll try it out — if for no other reason than to add some variation to an otherwise tedious process. You guys do you. 

People have unique takes on waxing though. I've heard people say they don't wax when riding spring time slush (don't shoot).


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Alkasquawlik
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26/10/2018 10:51 am  

Warming the base up opens up the pores to allow the base to absorb the wax more efficiently. Not like you HAVE to do it, but that's the theory behind it.


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Spenser
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26/10/2018 1:18 pm  

There are no pores in base material, and it’s my life’s mission to kill that “metaphor!” Haha

If anything, it’s probably like warming up your car window with a hair dryer before applying a decal... just helps the initial adhesion 

This post was modified 3 weeks  ago by Spenser

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c.fuzzy
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26/10/2018 2:37 pm  
Posted by: Spenser

There are no pores in base material, and it’s my life’s mission to kill that “metaphor!” Haha

If anything, it’s probably like warming up your car window with a hair dryer before applying a decal... just helps the initial adhesion 

My whole world is a LIIEEEEEE.

Apparently it's true that there are no pores in Ultra High Density Polyethylene (UHDP). Good thing I never built a hotbox. 

Also, there's molecularly no difference between sintered and extruded polyethylene but there are different densities of polyethylene, so... yeah.

Now I'm unsure if waxing really does much of anything at all after a run or two since there's nothing for it to adhere to it is just quickly removed by friction. It does however seem to work until it's scraped off. Structuring does piss all.

This post was modified 3 weeks  ago 2 times by c.fuzzy

donuts


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matty
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26/10/2018 3:27 pm  

We went back and forth about this last year, including reading some published research. I think that the idea, if I undersand it, is that the wax molecules are able to insert themselves into the mix of UHDP molecules on the surface of the base during waxing, though the wax molecules do not create strong bonds with the UHDP molecules. The presence of wax molecules in that mix regulates the hydrophobic characteristics of the surface base material, but because of the relatively weak nature of the bonds between the wax molecules and the UHDP molecules, the wax molecules are constantly being ejected from the mix - especially when energy is introduced into the base, like when the base is being run over snow.

Waxing replenishes the wax molecules in the base. The heat involved makes both the surface layer of the base and the wax itself more fluid and enables the weak bonding of wax molecules in amongst the UHDP molecules on the surface of the base. When you scrape, you are scraping away the wax that did not create molecular bonds with the UHDP, exposing that surface layer of the base with the UHDP/wax mixed matrix. Various techniques like multiple waxings or using a hot box can potentially increase the number of wax molecules that are incorprated in amongst the UHDP molecules by increasing the amount of time that the wax and base are fluid and available to create weak bonds with each other and thereby increasing the number of interactions at the molecular level between individual molecules of wax and molecules of UHDP.


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SoyMateo
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26/10/2018 3:34 pm  

#vanderWaalsAF

6'2 // 160lbs // 10.5-11.5 // Gentemstick Giant Manta // Moss PQ54 // CAxx


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Spenser
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26/10/2018 4:40 pm  

“Pores” really means structure. Imagine a microscopic Grand Canyon… the wax melts and fills in all the nooks and crannies, so that’s part of how it adheres. It’s also why waxing a sintered base is so much more important… they have structure, whereas extruded bases are relatively smooth, and also less dense


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slim253
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26/10/2018 7:50 pm  
Posted by: Supra

PSA: Hertel Racing FC 739 is on sale at amazon. It's normally $55/brick

thanks for the head's up! i snagged a couple as well. i was planning to get a brick this season, but this price was too good to pass up. i saw how well it worked for @triple8sol and friends last season, so it was definitely on the radar for me

Posted by: CJ

I know base and wax absorption has been discussed ad nauseam here and prob in past ELs, but  I decided to give my quiver a round of waxing whenever I had time to kill this Summer in hopes I won't have to wax as much for the coming season. I think my quiver has seen 4 rounds since the last season ended.

Has anyone tried this before?

i did this summer, but it was just putting a good storage coat of OBJ all-temp. had the lady friend come over to wax the boards she rides while i waxed my boards (have 2 irons). we drank beers and had a "wax party."

Posted by: SoyMateo

dang, thought I had outsmarted the wax gods.  Somewhere @yukiotokosama is shaking his head counting how many days I was slower than him on that damned runout from Tye to Chief.  I make bomb sango's tho.  Next demo day is finna be tasty.  Get ready @matty, 2018-2019 is the year of the sandwich demo

Posted by: SoyMateo

@supra we're keeping this off the grid, no CC's, fake identities cool and payment in, dare I say, chezzburgerz is accepted

wha bout dem hawtdawgz, bruh???

Posted by: matty

We went back and forth about this last year, including reading some published research. I think that the idea, if I undersand it, is that the wax molecules are able to insert themselves into the mix of UHDP molecules on the surface of the base during waxing, though the wax molecules do not create strong bonds with the UHDP molecules. The presence of wax molecules in that mix regulates the hydrophobic characteristics of the surface base material, but because of the relatively weak nature of the bonds between the wax molecules and the UHDP molecules, the wax molecules are constantly being ejected from the mix - especially when energy is introduced into the base, like when the base is being run over snow.

i feel like this is the best way to describe it, with the exception being that the issue (to my knowledge) has to do with the difference in densities of the wax and base material. the wax, being softer, not only gets "scraped" out by the friction of the snow, but also gets "squeezed out" of the base as it flexes and twists from riding.

Posted by: Spenser

“Pores” really means structure. Imagine a microscopic Grand Canyon… the wax melts and fills in all the nooks and crannies, so that’s part of how it adheres. It’s also why waxing a sintered base is so much more important… they have structure, whereas extruded bases are relatively smooth, and also less dense

pore (pōr) - noun - a small interstice admitting absorption or passage of liquid

interstice (in-ˈtər-stə-ˌsēz) - noun - a space that intervenes between things, especially : one between closely spaced thing

i guess we can agree to disagree on the whole "pore" fiasco.

although, in all honesty, i will say that i think it's more of the heat causing the molecules to "spread apart" to allow wax absorption than anything.

as far as the pre-heating of the base with an iron that @jerklin and @sgboarder were interested in, i've been told it's a no-no by a shop owner and s couple different shop techs. i figured it made sense with the same reasoning as you guys, and had tried it before i was told why not to do it (and it yielded no noticable results). the reason not to is that you cannot as  easily control the heat transfered into the base as you can while waxing. not only does the wax help to absorb energy as @matty stated, but it also acts as a visual guide. you can see when the iron has been in a spot on the board long enough, or too long, because of how liquidy/shiny the melted wax is. on a dry base, you have no visual reference, which can lead to overheating; overheating can cause base delam, especially around the inserts as they're metal and absorb the heat and hold it a lot more than the base's plastic material. you all are more than welcome to do it if you want -- i'm not telling you not to --  just giving you the reasoning behind it to allow you to make an educated decision as a financially responsible adult. also, i hear the guys at TGR pre-heat their bases.

TL;DR

135 lbs. (62kg) | 5'7" (170cm) | Mens U.S. 8 boots | Fischer RC4 Worldcup GS 189cm


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Spenser
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27/10/2018 12:41 am  

The same website that proved pores don’t exist in base material proved this: the temperature required to expand base material, to the point of allowing a wax molecule to enter a potential pore that was previously too small or “closed,” would vaporize the base material long before it could expand enough for this to occur.  I really wish that site were still around... it was quite scientific and had all the electromagnetic images and elaborate equations to support its claims… I think I have screenshots saved somewhere deep in my hard drives, but it would be a task to find them. Probably been 10 years now.

Basically, the point is that there are no “pores,” there is only structure, and the material virtually doesn’t expand with that amount of heat. You are simply melting wax into the structure. And that’s okay. It works!

Either way, none of this changes what to do with waxing. You wax when you need to, I guess?

This post was modified 3 weeks  ago 6 times by Spenser

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pow_hnd
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27/10/2018 9:07 am  

Waxing just got easier and/or faster... 

IMG 1746

You fucked with squirrels Morty


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89c51
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27/10/2018 2:51 pm  

^^ Someone need to make/design/3d print a cover that you can attach a vaccuum cleaner for these stuff.


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