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Nate
 Nate
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Posted by: @kimchi

Wah I love the level of discourse in this thread. I moderate the snowboarding subreddit and the bulk of the questions are more on the level of... "Should I buy these Montec jackets and Zionor goggles?"

That’s hilarious, because just a few days ago I went off on some kid over there who was shilling Montec/Dope hard with his “actual, real” review of their stuff. I was kind of surprised that the sub rallied around my comment of supporting actual, real snowboard companies instead of that shit.


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BFBF
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Posted by: @benjinyc

did someone already share this…backcountry exclusive, looks like backcountry is starting to make their own line of boards too

 

https://www.backcountry.com/whitespace-shaun-white-pro-limited-edition-autographed-snowboard

 

WHI D7

White starting his own brand is = nice 

White dating Nina dobrev = exceptional .  Well done my dude   Well done 👍🏻 

88BD522C D86E 4030 BE7C 853250EC2C59
6AB3CC1B 7DD4 474C 9258 36BF29BA15AF

Well done 😂

 


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STUDIO ARCHIV
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@spenser I asked a developer at Burton about zip-tech. He was there when Burton developed it. The story was Burton developed it, but it was one of the few innovations they did not patent. Volcom picked it up and patented it and it is a very bitter subject at Burton to this day.

At L1 I developed a gap-less Zip-Lock zipper system that went all the way around the pant basically making your pant and jacket into a full-suit. Holden also had a zipping jacket-to-pant system. I'm sure there was more.

One issue with any zipping system is cost and now recycling. After fabric, zipper cost is a primary diver in garment costing. Zippers, especially longer ones needed for zipping systems, do add substantial cost. As more brands are focused on the eco footprint of their outerwear, there are some zippers that can be recycled, but not many. YKK, which is the benchmark for high-performance zippers, is working on a recycled zipper (they might have one by now), but it may not be at the level of their waterproof zippers.

Zip-tech is rad, and it's actually very cool Vco has it and not Burton. Maybe one day they will opt for licensing it, but that for sure will add to the cost of the jackets and pants of the brand wanting to use the system.


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pow_hnd
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Posted by: @michaeldawson

What I have seen of Jones it lacks all of that. It is actual pretty underwhelming (at this point) and just comes across to me as a me too brand using Gore.

Fucking thank you. I loath Jones all around and his pretentious attitude along with his condesending marketing, which at the same time being a complete fucking hypocrite... I.E. boards made in Dubai - a city built with slave labor ( in modern times ) and their terrible human/womens rights as of current. 

Nothing they make is worth it IMO.

 

YMMV


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pow_hnd
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Posted by: @michaeldawson

Event

This stuff was the bomb. I was on the Salomon/Bonfire program as a R&D rider back in the day and rode this stuff. Every bit a good as the best Gore that was available at the time. They just ran into the same problem all other competitors to Gore do. Brand name recognition. Gore just has just such a jump on everyone else that it's almost impossible to compete, no matter how good it is. Which sucks. 


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@pow_hnd I prefer brands that talk less and let their performance speak for them. I watched some vid of his where he had this intro monologue that was so pretentiously painful I had to turn it off after 30 seconds. For all of the build up hype about the Jones outerwear launch it def was not at an AK level and no where near Arc'teryx which it was hyped to be. We will see for the future. At this point brands should talk less and just do.


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kimchi
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Posted by: @oneeightnate
Posted by: @kimchi

Wah I love the level of discourse in this thread. I moderate the snowboarding subreddit and the bulk of the questions are more on the level of... "Should I buy these Montec jackets and Zionor goggles?"

That’s hilarious, because just a few days ago I went off on some kid over there who was shilling Montec/Dope hard with his “actual, real” review of their stuff. I was kind of surprised that the sub rallied around my comment of supporting actual, real snowboard companies instead of that shit.

Lol I know exactly what you're talking about. The thing that got me was less the shilling, but the fact that his review criteria was GARBAGE. You can tell very little about a jacket's real-life performance gently pouring water on it indoors, especially when the DWR is new. AT LEAST shower test that shit, so you got some pressure behind it, and even that's not really a particularly good test.

Look at the stitching, look at the pattern, talk about longer term durability. I can tell just looking at the video the stitching on Montec sucks and will have a higher failure rate. And if you don't know what you're talking about, set your ass down.

If I were more dictatorially inclined, I would take down a LOT of shit. But sadly I generally fall into the camp of internet expression that everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if their opinion fucking sucks.


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Nate
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Posted by: @kimchi
Posted by: @oneeightnate
Posted by: @kimchi

Wah I love the level of discourse in this thread. I moderate the snowboarding subreddit and the bulk of the questions are more on the level of... "Should I buy these Montec jackets and Zionor goggles?"

That’s hilarious, because just a few days ago I went off on some kid over there who was shilling Montec/Dope hard with his “actual, real” review of their stuff. I was kind of surprised that the sub rallied around my comment of supporting actual, real snowboard companies instead of that shit.

Lol I know exactly what you're talking about. The thing that got me was less the shilling, but the fact that his review criteria was GARBAGE. You can tell very little about a jacket's real-life performance gently pouring water on it indoors, especially when the DWR is new. AT LEAST shower test that shit, so you got some pressure behind it, and even that's not really a particularly good test.

Look at the stitching, look at the pattern, talk about longer term durability. I can tell just looking at the video the stitching on Montec sucks and will have a higher failure rate. And if you don't know what you're talking about, set your ass down.

If I were more dictatorially inclined, I would take down a LOT of shit. But sadly I generally fall into the camp of internet expression that everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if their opinion fucking sucks.

I hear ya, thanks for doing the lord’s work over there haha.

That thread was still somehow better than the “what’s wrong with Ruroc? If you support snowboarding you shouldn’t put people down for wearing Ruroc” thread I was in. Fucking hell.


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kimchi
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Posted by: @michaeldawson

At this point brands should talk less and just do.

Sadly... the market rewards brands who talk so much more than brands than just do. The "just do" brands like Arc'teryx and Patagonia take years or even decades to build up that credibility. I can't think of any of the big snowboard companies that don't generate nausea-inducing, nonsensical marketing hype on literally every piece of marketing copy they generate. Korua is the biggest brand I can think of that just shoots straight and lets consumers hype for them. Maybe Weston.


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@pow_hnd Thats what I recall too. Bonfire Jumped in early to support Event. In order to use Event, like with Gore and many branded fabrics, you have to sign a licensing deal that locks you into their product. When brands evaluate what branded fabric will get them the most recognition at retail, Gore is at the top. So, if you are going to pay to use the fabric technology, then they go for Gore. It's more about name recognition than true performance.

In order to even be considered by Gore they want to know how many styles you will be building with Gore and how many units of Gore product you will sell. Gore wants to sell more Gore. In an industry that is over saturated with an excess of left over product, and is concerned about its environmental footprint, Gores approach seems a bit counter intuitive.

I hope in the future the playing field for performance outdoor fabrics can be leveled. At this point Gores hold over the industry almost borders on the unhealthy for technical progression.

This post was modified 2 days ago by STUDIO ARCHIV

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Nate
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Posted by: @michaeldawson

@pow_hnd Thats what I recall too. Bonfire Jumped in early to support Event. In order to use Event, like with Gore and many branded fabrics, you have to sign a licensing deal that locks you into their product. When brands evaluate what branded fabric will get them the most recognition at retail, Gore is at the top. So, if you are going to pay to use the fabric technology, then they go for Gore. It's more about name recognition than true performance.

In order to even be considered by Gore they want to know how many styles you will be building with Gore and how many units of Gore product you will sell. Gore wants to sell more Gore. In an industry that is over saturated with an excess of left over product, and is concerned about its environmental footprint, Gores approach seems a bit counter intuitive.

I hope in the future the playing field for performance outdoor fabrics can be leveled. At this point Gores hold over the industry almost borders on the unhealthy for technical progression.

I noticed Billabong is doing something called Sympatex 2L now that’s claimed to be 45k/45k. I’d like to try it out for the hell of it, it’s pretty affordable. I know they’re in the Quiksilver group, though, so weary of the quality.


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kimchi
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Posted by: @oneeightnate
Posted by: @michaeldawson

@pow_hnd Thats what I recall too. Bonfire Jumped in early to support Event. In order to use Event, like with Gore and many branded fabrics, you have to sign a licensing deal that locks you into their product. When brands evaluate what branded fabric will get them the most recognition at retail, Gore is at the top. So, if you are going to pay to use the fabric technology, then they go for Gore. It's more about name recognition than true performance.

In order to even be considered by Gore they want to know how many styles you will be building with Gore and how many units of Gore product you will sell. Gore wants to sell more Gore. In an industry that is over saturated with an excess of left over product, and is concerned about its environmental footprint, Gores approach seems a bit counter intuitive.

I hope in the future the playing field for performance outdoor fabrics can be leveled. At this point Gores hold over the industry almost borders on the unhealthy for technical progression.

I noticed Billabong is doing something called Sympatex 2L now that’s claimed to be 45k/45k. I’d like to try it out for the hell of it, it’s pretty affordable. I know they’re in the Quiksilver group, though, so weary of the quality.

Sympatex has been around a long time. They apparently even have their own Wikipedia page. I don't recall hearing about them in the same class as Gore-tex, though.

45k breathability is a serious claim. Wonder how that compares to Gore-tex Pro 3L's apparently secret breathability number.


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kimchi
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I hear ya, thanks for doing the lord’s work over there haha.

That thread was still somehow better than the “what’s wrong with Ruroc? If you support snowboarding you shouldn’t put people down for wearing Ruroc” thread I was in. Fucking hell.

In truth, my co-mod does most of the in-the-weeds moderating. I made it pretty clear when I started I didn't have any interest in putting people in time-out after stupid internet flame wars or stamping out spam. I'll step in here and there, but good 80-90% falls on him. I see my role more as overall direction and in-the-weeds helping out folks who I feel have the right attitude get fit with gear and technique.


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@kimchi In 2019 For 32 I designed a 30k/30k collection for Nicolas Müller. To give a fabric performance comparison to the sales team I did a deep dive and located these Gore numbers on a European Mountain and Ice climbing website.

Gore-Tex Pro- 28,000 waterproofing 25,000 breathability

Gore-Tex- 28,000 waterproofing 17,000 breathability

 

This is a good read, no numbers but cool info.

https://www.facewest.co.uk/Gore-Tex-Fabrics-Explained.html


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kimchi
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Posted by: @michaeldawson

@kimchi In 2019 For 32 I designed a 30k/30k collection for Nicolas Müller. To give a fabric performance comparison to the sales team I did a deep dive and located these Gore numbers on a European Mountain and Ice climbing website.

Gore-Tex Pro- 28,000 waterproofing 25,000 breathability

Gore-Tex- 28,000 waterproofing 17,000 breathability

 

This is a good read, no numbers but cool info.

https://www.facewest.co.uk/Gore-Tex-Fabrics-Explained.html

Cool, thanks for that! I've seen Gore listed at 30k waterproofing, but never seen breathability numbers. Like you said earlier in the post, Gore prefers people assuming "it's Gore-tex, and that's enough."

Tangent on laminate specs: laminate is only one part of the equation. Face and backing fabric also have huge implications on performance. For example I've found textured, heathered fabrics (Cordura comes to mind) pick up a lot more accumulation in freezing precip, because of the added surface area. Plus face / backing fabric has a HUGE impact on overall weight and feel. But I've never seen any way of actually gauging these short of just holding the piece in my hand, and even then I really only know after I've put the thing to snow a few dozen times and ridden it across various snow conditions. Any thoughts?


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