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kimchi
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Just listened to the Elena Hight episode on Bomb Hole. Didn't realize she's on the Arc'teryx team. Hopefully they make a bigger push into snowboarding. Love their stuff, could do with less skier-y fits (especially on their bibs).


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ivo
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The Heli guide bib fits more loose than the others like Alpha and Beta SV. Also burliest so I definitely recommend over the rest in the line. Well not sure how the Jil Sander collab fits, if that’s your jam. I’m just hoping for a better snowboard carry pack


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kimchi
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Posted by: @ivo-zlatinovgmail-com

The Heli guide bib fits more loose than the others like Alpha and Beta SV. Also burliest so I definitely recommend over the rest in the line. Well not sure how the Jil Sander collab fits, if that’s your jam. I’m just hoping for a better snowboard carry pack

I'm sure I could get it somehow, but from what I tell they don't even sell the Heli bib except to mountain professionals.

I wish Burton made the [ak] Freebird with Goretex Pro. Just a bit burlier and that thing would be perfect (I'm in the process of wearing out my second in about 4 seasons).


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unsuspected
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Posted by: @kimchi
Posted by: @ivo-zlatinovgmail-com

The Heli guide bib fits more loose than the others like Alpha and Beta SV. Also burliest so I definitely recommend over the rest in the line. Well not sure how the Jil Sander collab fits, if that’s your jam. I’m just hoping for a better snowboard carry pack

I'm sure I could get it somehow, but from what I tell they don't even sell the Heli bib except to mountain professionals.

I wish Burton made the [ak] Freebird with Goretex Pro. Just a bit burlier and that thing would be perfect (I'm in the process of wearing out my second in about 4 seasons).

The older [ak] Freebird was Goretex Pro. Just need a shit flap and it could be perfect.

Bought a used pair in large but now I wish they were XL.


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casjcade
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the current stretch goretex has been more durable than the previous for me. the even older one was extra durable and stiff, had the shitflap, but was a much slimmer fit and no stretch. like the stretch version best, but the bib part is misplaced on it. maybe they fixed that now, mine is a few years old.


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drmoebius
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@unsuspected 

By now I am confident that Burton actually follows a cycle with the Freebird and their whole AK line where they improve one aspect and simultaneously make something else worse. I also came to the conclusion that they do this intentionally.

In somewhat chronological order (and from the perspective of someone that mostly does splitboarding these days)

+ The Bibs used to have stupid butt pockets, but they removed those. They also had those stupid zips at the bottom in case you wanted to flair out your pants or whatever. They removed those too.

+- Instead of the velcro suspenders they used to have buckles. The advantage of the buckles was that you could use them as a belt, let the upper part of the bib dangle down while hiking up. Since they removed belt loops in one of their cycles, that was a good thing. Downside to the buckles was that they could hurt when wearing heavy backpacks.

So we are pretty close to the perfect freebirds at that point. The only thing they could have done to improve them, would have been to make the bib part dangleable or more breathable for touring. On the other hand I really do like the extra warmth, so I would have preferred simple belt loops and would have let the bib part dangle down or whatever.

They did bring out Tusk pants for a short while, sadly never picked one up because my freebirds were still working. The only thing that seemed off was the short front bib part. As I mentioned, it does provide cheap extra warmth.

For some reason every freestyle pro on the burton Team seems to have started to wear AK stuff now. Some of them probably know backcountry, some obviously don't. Now Burton is starting to "improve" the AK line again.

- They reintroduce butt pockets and that moronic cuff zip. Hilariously they put the cuff zip on the inside, because who give a shit about splitboarding?

-+ They change the material from Gore-Tex Pro to Stretch. Maybe Stretch is as resistant, probably not. What it should be is more breathable, but that holds true for every Gore-Tex garment.

-+ there is still no way to wear the bibs like pants on the uphill. Might be possible with the "internal waist adjustement", but I doubt it. Are you people that design this crap not sweating on the uphill?!

+- OK, the upper part is now some different type of Gore-Tex, supposed to be more breathable. You know what is even more breathable? Not having another piece of layer on your back on the uphill.

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by drmoebius

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nmb
 nmb
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damn im either happy or sad for you 


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c.fuzzy
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Posted by: @drmoebius

@unsuspected 

By now I am confident that Burton actually follows a cycle with the Freebird and their whole AK line where they improve one aspect and simultaneously make something else worse. I also came to the conclusion that they do this intentionally.

In somewhat chronological order (and from the perspective of someone that mostly does splitboarding these days)

+ The Bibs used to have stupid butt pockets, but they removed those. They also had those stupid zips at the bottom in case you wanted to flair out your pants or whatever. They removed those too.

+- Instead of the velcro suspenders they used to have buckles. The advantage of the buckles was that you could use them as a belt, let the upper part of the bib dangle down while hiking up. Since they removed belt loops in one of their cycles, that was a good thing. Downside to the buckles was that they could hurt when wearing heavy backpacks.

So we are pretty close to the perfect freebirds at that point. The only thing they could have done to improve them, would have been to make the bib part dangleable or more breathable for touring. On the other hand I really do like the extra warmth, so I would have preferred simple belt loops and would have let the bib part dangle down or whatever.

They did bring out Tusk pants for a short while, sadly never picked one up because my freebirds were still working. The only thing that seemed off was the short front bib part. As I mentioned, it does provide cheap extra warmth.

For some reason every freestyle pro on the burton Team seems to have started to wear AK stuff now. Some of them probably know backcountry, some obviously don't. Now Burton is starting to "improve" the AK line again.

- They reintroduce butt pockets and that moronic cuff zip. Hilariously they put the cuff zip on the inside, because who give a shit about splitboarding?

-+ They change the material from Gore-Tex Pro to Stretch. Maybe Stretch is as resistant, probably not. What it should be is more breathable, but that holds true for every Gore-Tex garment.

-+ there is still no way to wear the bibs like pants on the uphill. Might be possible with the "internal waist adjustement", but I doubt it. Are you people that design this crap not sweating on the uphill?!

+- OK, the upper part is now some different type of Gore-Tex, supposed to be more breathable. You know what is even more breathable? Not having another piece of layer on your back on the uphill.

 

I imagine the designers that design them don't wear them or just need to make small changes every year to justify their existence. The vast majority or riders who give design input probably ain't splitting. They've got sleds or helis and a film crew. 

Maybe Jones has a worthy bib out now? 


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pow_hnd
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Posted by: @drmoebius

@unsuspected 

By now I am confident that Burton actually follows a cycle with the Freebird and their whole AK line where they improve one aspect and simultaneously make something else worse. I also came to the conclusion that they do this intentionally.

In somewhat chronological order (and from the perspective of someone that mostly does splitboarding these days)

+ The Bibs used to have stupid butt pockets, but they removed those. They also had those stupid zips at the bottom in case you wanted to flair out your pants or whatever. They removed those too.

+- Instead of the velcro suspenders they used to have buckles. The advantage of the buckles was that you could use them as a belt, let the upper part of the bib dangle down while hiking up. Since they removed belt loops in one of their cycles, that was a good thing. Downside to the buckles was that they could hurt when wearing heavy backpacks.

So we are pretty close to the perfect freebirds at that point. The only thing they could have done to improve them, would have been to make the bib part dangleable or more breathable for touring. On the other hand I really do like the extra warmth, so I would have preferred simple belt loops and would have let the bib part dangle down or whatever.

They did bring out Tusk pants for a short while, sadly never picked one up because my freebirds were still working. The only thing that seemed off was the short front bib part. As I mentioned, it does provide cheap extra warmth.

For some reason every freestyle pro on the burton Team seems to have started to wear AK stuff now. Some of them probably know backcountry, some obviously don't. Now Burton is starting to "improve" the AK line again.

- They reintroduce butt pockets and that moronic cuff zip. Hilariously they put the cuff zip on the inside, because who give a shit about splitboarding?

-+ They change the material from Gore-Tex Pro to Stretch. Maybe Stretch is as resistant, probably not. What it should be is more breathable, but that holds true for every Gore-Tex garment.

-+ there is still no way to wear the bibs like pants on the uphill. Might be possible with the "internal waist adjustement", but I doubt it. Are you people that design this crap not sweating on the uphill?!

+- OK, the upper part is now some different type of Gore-Tex, supposed to be more breathable. You know what is even more breathable? Not having another piece of layer on your back on the uphill.

 

AK457 Bibs address all these issues... 


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unsuspected
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Posted by: @pow_hnd
Posted by: @drmoebius

@unsuspected 

By now I am confident that Burton actually follows a cycle with the Freebird and their whole AK line where they improve one aspect and simultaneously make something else worse. I also came to the conclusion that they do this intentionally.

In somewhat chronological order (and from the perspective of someone that mostly does splitboarding these days)

+ The Bibs used to have stupid butt pockets, but they removed those. They also had those stupid zips at the bottom in case you wanted to flair out your pants or whatever. They removed those too.

+- Instead of the velcro suspenders they used to have buckles. The advantage of the buckles was that you could use them as a belt, let the upper part of the bib dangle down while hiking up. Since they removed belt loops in one of their cycles, that was a good thing. Downside to the buckles was that they could hurt when wearing heavy backpacks.

So we are pretty close to the perfect freebirds at that point. The only thing they could have done to improve them, would have been to make the bib part dangleable or more breathable for touring. On the other hand I really do like the extra warmth, so I would have preferred simple belt loops and would have let the bib part dangle down or whatever.

They did bring out Tusk pants for a short while, sadly never picked one up because my freebirds were still working. The only thing that seemed off was the short front bib part. As I mentioned, it does provide cheap extra warmth.

For some reason every freestyle pro on the burton Team seems to have started to wear AK stuff now. Some of them probably know backcountry, some obviously don't. Now Burton is starting to "improve" the AK line again.

- They reintroduce butt pockets and that moronic cuff zip. Hilariously they put the cuff zip on the inside, because who give a shit about splitboarding?

-+ They change the material from Gore-Tex Pro to Stretch. Maybe Stretch is as resistant, probably not. What it should be is more breathable, but that holds true for every Gore-Tex garment.

-+ there is still no way to wear the bibs like pants on the uphill. Might be possible with the "internal waist adjustement", but I doubt it. Are you people that design this crap not sweating on the uphill?!

+- OK, the upper part is now some different type of Gore-Tex, supposed to be more breathable. You know what is even more breathable? Not having another piece of layer on your back on the uphill.

 

AK457 Bibs address all these issues... 

And not available in EU...


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ivo
 ivo
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ak457 is pretty low, basically pants with suspenders

ugh I take this back, checked and not as low as I thought

This post was modified 2 months ago by ivo

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drmoebius
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Sorry for the tantrum I guess, just wanted to show that I'm not making this up and that I've been following that development 🙂

The AK Guide pants do look interesting, however, they are difficult to get in Europe and to be honest I try to use my stuff as long as possible, so I'll stick to the Freebird while it lasts. I also think the mesh back on the Guides negates the main advantage of bibs, you know a warm and dry back if you want that.

I know me complaining is pointless, figured some might find it amusing. It may be that by the time I have to buy new pants the "progression" wheel of the AK line has stopped at a point where the smart ideas outweigh the stupid ones.


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pow_hnd
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Posted by: @drmoebius

I also think the mesh back on the Guides negates the main advantage of bibs, you know a warm and dry back if you want that.

It doesn't at all, been running them for years with no issues, I also have Freebirds, which I use exclusively on the chairs and then run the AK457 for everything else, splitboarding and cat/heli days. The mesh on the back actually works better because when you're skinning with your backpack on your back doesn't get nearly as sweaty as it does in the Freebirds. The bibs are high enough and the mesh does its job that  I never get snow inside or down my back even in our crazy light Utah blower. The mesh is one of the best thought out features in my opinion next to the beacon pocket. 

AK457 Guide Jacket and AK457 Guide Backpack all rule. Best setup I've ever had. 


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Payaso
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The mesh back makes total sense to me.  I've been wearing Freebirds for years for splitting and pow days, first the pro version and now the current gore and love them both.  The current version fits like it was tailored for me, and I've literally tried probably every high-end bib on the market (to me, fit is everything in bibs and trumps the features).

But I've always thought that mesh in the back would make it better, because for splitting, no matter how cold it is, I usually sweat like a pig in the back, in part from wearing a backpack. 


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kimchi
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Posted by: @drmoebius

- They reintroduce butt pockets and that moronic cuff zip. Hilariously they put the cuff zip on the inside, because who give a shit about splitboarding? 

Looool. I have a set of 2018 and 2020 Freebirds. The 2020 were seconds. Sometime in between they moved the cuff zips from lateral side to medial side. Never found the alleged cosmetic flaw, so I almost wondered if the flaw was fucking up the cuff zip position.


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