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Mikka
(@silverpowsurfer)
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 159
17/04/2020 2:49 pm  

sad thing is everyone is making valid points - but this is what makes this situation so f'd up. Politics...does this weird thing to forums...maybe reddit might be a better place to dive deeper into such subjects? AT least we can still openly discuss this....well first world problems...

..but then not really. It affects the world.

Sad truth is - we'll have to honker down for a bit more....don't know if I can make it another week without boarding...conditions should be perfect but...


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
Wasangeles Forum Superstar!
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 763
17/04/2020 3:36 pm  
Posted by: @silverpowsurfer

..don't know if I can make it another week without boarding...conditions should be perfect but..

I've been social distancing and splitboarding almost every day. We had a good 12" storm here in Wasangeles the last few days. Yesterday and today was TITS out there! 


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89c51
(@89c51)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 899
17/04/2020 4:16 pm  
Posted by: @drjcv

 

This is a disaster of epic proportions the likes of which has never been seen, and it will take 10 years of heartache to recover from and will be looked back at as the most mishandled event in the history of mankind.

the cure is definitely worse than the disease and hopefully that will be perfectly illustrated when its over, so we never repeat this idiotic bullshit again.

 

 

We've seen countries recover in less than 10 years from wars that left them with no infra plus millions of young people (read workforce) dead and you actually believe that a 3 month break will cause such big damage.

 

 


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Mikka
(@silverpowsurfer)
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Posts: 159
17/04/2020 7:16 pm  
Posted by: @pow_hnd

I've been social distancing and splitboarding almost every day. We had a good 12" storm here in Wasangeles the last few days. Yesterday and today was TITS out there! 

So jealous! My options within 20-30 miles are very limited... Those are pretty much all I could do and not much low angle:

mt charleston

 

 

lee

...but ...leg is good but my wrist has been not mended enough...left my splitboard at a buddies who went offline and have to hike. There are some easy but long hikes to get to my bucket list run for this season...but I would have to go solo...too many buts...

 

...but will go take a look at the snow conditions tomorrow - no avalanche warning system here...


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black bnr32
(@blackbnr32)
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17/04/2020 7:18 pm  
Posted by: @89c51
Posted by: @drjcv

 

This is a disaster of epic proportions the likes of which has never been seen, and it will take 10 years of heartache to recover from and will be looked back at as the most mishandled event in the history of mankind.

the cure is definitely worse than the disease and hopefully that will be perfectly illustrated when its over, so we never repeat this idiotic bullshit again.

 

 

We've seen countries recover in less than 10 years from wars that left them with no infra plus millions of young people (read workforce) dead and you actually believe that a 3 month break will cause such big damage.

 

 

Wait, like who?  Srs question so I can learn.

 

I lean towards the “we overacted in Canada” conclusion.


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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17/04/2020 7:31 pm  
Posted by: @blackbnr32

Wait, like who?  Srs question so I can learn.

Umm, right off the top of my head. Germany, end of WW1 ,1919 Treaty of Versailles, to global powerhouse till the moment of the Great Depression 1929, 10 years later.... 


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Mikka
(@silverpowsurfer)
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 159
17/04/2020 7:36 pm  
Posted by: @pow_hnd

Umm, right off the top of my head. Germany, end of WW1 ,1919 Treaty of Versailles, to global powerhouse till the moment of the Great Depression 1929, 10 years later.... 

Let's not forgot to throw in the virus in that mix...good thing history doesn't repeat itself...right?


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pow_hnd
(@pow_hnd)
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17/04/2020 7:45 pm  
Posted by: @silverpowsurfer
Posted by: @pow_hnd

Umm, right off the top of my head. Germany, end of WW1 ,1919 Treaty of Versailles, to global powerhouse till the moment of the Great Depression 1929, 10 years later.... 

Let's not forgot to throw in the virus in that mix...good thing history doesn't repeat itself...right?

For sure, you’d think I would have realized it, but yea, that Spanish Flu thing that ran rampant from 1918-1919 in Europe and hammered Germany at the same time they were getting the shit kicked out of them in WW1.


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Mikka
(@silverpowsurfer)
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17/04/2020 8:11 pm  

one might able able to argue that Germany got lucky with recovering quickly from both WWs - Spanish flu could have certainly played a mayor role in the "quick" recovery for WW1, having one of the most advanced democratic systems in place probably for the quick post WW2 recovery  - but of course there are plenty of other examples that went the opposite way.

 

Some voices here seem to focus on yesterday, most on today and some on tomorrow...I just still fucking scared about the day after...tomorrow.


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black bnr32
(@blackbnr32)
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17/04/2020 9:14 pm  

Idunno, Germany between the world wars sounds like a bad time.  


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Mikka
(@silverpowsurfer)
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17/04/2020 9:23 pm  

@blackbnr32

 

yeah sounds like a seriously fucked up time back then...and I can assure you post WW2 was mayorly fucked up for the other half of Germany for a few more decades...


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Mariner9
(@mariner9)
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18/04/2020 5:30 am  

"It has not yet been tested as to whether or not foregoing quarantine/isolation in hope of preserving economic opportunity will be effective"

That seems to be what Sweden is doing. Their cases and deaths per mm population are similar to the UK which - belatedly - imposed a lockdown (albeit not widely observed based on the anecdotal evidence). That said, their cases and deaths are much worse (population-adjusted) than Norway or Finland. Plenty of charts available for free here (among other places).

Given how much uncertainty there is about the virus (infection rate, death rate, immunity...), it's good to keep an open mind. 

 

"The model that several countries successfully implemented was dependent on rigorous testing and isolation"

It was also based on contact tracing. Technology to do that is not yet in place in the West (see this story)


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MikeHoncho
(@mikehoncho)
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19/04/2020 11:24 am  
Posted by: @matty
Posted by: @mikehoncho
Posted by: @matty
Posted by: @mikehoncho
Posted by: @pow_hnd
Posted by: @mikehoncho

Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci have both made recent statements in the news suggesting the need for a tracking Systems for people who have been administered vaccines for infectious diseases.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/03/18/bill-gates-calls-for-national-tracking-system-for-coronavirus-during-reddit-ama/#651c3a146a72

ID2020 is an alliance of partners (including partner Microsoft) who's sole purpose is to govern the implementation of secure Digital ID Solutions & Technologies for Healthcare, education, voting, and banking services.

I see all of this as a good thing, not a bad thing. Obviously you don't. 

 

Uh, no.  The opportunity for government involvement / influence in a Digital ID program is terrifying.

TL;DR. See several posts earlier in thread for cause of Mike's butthurt.

Wow, lots of hot air here to unpack, I’m not even sure where to begin.  Kind of typical from you though Matty, but what I expected to eventually see.  certainly not a mobile phone or tablet response I would guess!

once I wipe away the bloat, you leave two primary comments worth further discussion.  You feel that we are a “society required to sacrifice our civil liberties for the greater good”, which we are not...we are a republic with constitutional rights that may not be infringed (point #1).  I’m sure we will be seeing plenty of law suits in the coming weeks reinforcing this fact.

And...that the COVID19 death rate isn’t inflated and effected by non-COVID19 deaths.  Which I’m sure you know good and well is not true as there is plenty of reports surfacing that they are significantly over inflated (point #2) for a variety of reason...Politics, Federal Incentives to hospitals, lack of testing of elderly phenomena patients, etc.

by the way, bullshit response on the ID2020 stuff.  A government run digital ID is not even close to today’s infrastructure (point #3).  

sorry, responding from my phone...

Whoops. You caught me. I have access to a computer. I find tapatalk or mobile browsers to be a pain in the ass for forum access.

Let's address each of your points. I helpfully numbered and bolded them above.

1) It is a common misconception that the individuals in our society have some sort of totality of "rights [and freedoms] that may not be infringed". That's simply not true. There are numerous powers that The Government has, codified in law (including both federal and state constitutions), that allow for the infringement of our rights. Easy examples are: the selective service draft in times of war, imprisonment and loss of voting privileges (or even the death penalty) if convicted of certain crimes, requiring a license to legally drive a car or get married, and the requirement to pay taxes. MANY of our fellow Americans seem to misunderstand that they do NOT have unfettered freedoms and privileges. Google "sovereign citizen traffic stop" for some particularly tragic/entertaining examples of this ignorance. Watch the youtube videos. Specifically relating to the topic at hand, the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution and section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264 and parts 70 and 71) actually allow for the federal government to isolate and quarantine individuals in order to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between the states. At the state and local level, the 10th amendment to the constitution was determined by a Supreme Court decision way back in 1824 (Gibbons v Ogden) to allow each state to set its own laws regarding quarantine and isolation. I imagine that there will be a litany of legal challenges to the authority of various levels of government over our current quarantine. I also imagine that many will be surprised at how unsuccessful those challenges will be. Kind of like the shock on the faces of the "sovereign citizens" in the aforementioned youtube videos when they are inevitably arrested.

2) Only a few conservative media outlets and cynical politicians and rabble-rousing public figures are claiming that reported mortality numbers are over-inflated. Epidemiologists, infectious disease specialists, public health specialists, and Trump's own COVID-19 task force are all actually claiming that mortality numbers have so far been UNDER-reported, due to inadequate reporting infrastructure and a lack of testing supplies with which to confirm diagnoses. Similarly to other recent epidemics, like H1N1 flu, SARS, and MERS: numbers are revised upwards after the fact as data is more comprehensively collected. A misunderstanding about this methodology has led many of those falsely claiming that COVID-19 numbers are over-inflated to point to the much lower number of pneumonia deaths recorded for late March and early April 2020 vs this time last year as some smoking gun that these "missing" pneumonia numbers must be getting rolled into COVID-19 numbers. That's simply not true. Instead, this is actually an example of the timeline of data acquisition and publishing. The numbers currently available are just preliminary numbers. Not all health authorities have reported pneumonia deaths for this time period yet, which is normal. This year, those numbers will actually take much longer to acquire and report, as health authorities are kind of busy right now. When final counts are available (hopefully later this year), we actually expect to see higher mortality numbers for most diagnoses (including non-COVID pneumonia) as a result of the overextended health resources and diminished access to care in places like New York City, Chicago, Detroit, and New Orleans. Smaller communities in places like rural Georgia are also seeing their hospitals swamped, and there are strong indications that communities in other parts of the country may soon see localized surges.

3) A Government-run (you forgot to capitalize the big baddy) digital ID system will be, as @pow_hnd pointed out, just the latest example of the need to have tracking infrastructure within our organized society. The digital specifics and health status subject matter are just a sign of the times. 

Wow, you are really stretching here...

The Commerce Clause has fairly strict limits on government's power to quarantine an individual, and it certainly can not deny them from your constitutional right to "life, liberty, and property" without due process of law...As due all of the other examples you used above.  The Commerce Clause was created to permit Congress to regulate commerce with foreign nations and across interstate lines, hence the "Commerce" in Commerce Clause.  It does not allow any branch of government to confine people for arbitrary reasons and without providing adequate due process.  Hence the reason I stated we will most likely see many challenges in court over the coming weeks.  In California, we have already seen several law suits from local business challenging that state on mandate closures.  In all cases that I am aware of charges were dropped and they were allowed to remain open with precautionary measures.  Recently,  a guy was arrested for paddle boarding.  His lawyer made quick work of it and the county dropped all charges.

In regards to the over-inflated COVID19 death numbers, You Bernie Bros love to dismiss any reports by conservative media outlets as propaganda...As you eat spool fulls of inaccurate and ever changing data and quote MSLCD and CNN.  While you wrote your response, Trump's COVID19 task force was reporting that they were looking into an estimated 3000 cases of inaccurately reported deaths in NY.  In regards to the date, just this week the fatality models have dropped by 12% from 68,841 to 60,308 by August.  Compare those numbers to the 250k deaths from Malaria, 270k suicides, 340k traffic fatalities, 420k HIV/AIDS deaths, 2M cancer deaths, 3M hunger deaths, and the 10M abortion deaths in the same time period, it makes perfect sense to shut down the economy.

For fucks sake, a GOVERNMENT (happy?) run digital ID System would be full of corruption and abuse.  You are a fool to think otherwise...  


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coleslawed
(@coleslawed)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1423
19/04/2020 12:45 pm  
Posted by: @mikehoncho
[lots of rambling]
 
In regards to the date, just this week the fatality models have dropped by 12% from 68,841 to 60,308 by August.  Compare those numbers to the 250k deaths from Malaria, 270k suicides, 340k traffic fatalities, 420k HIV/AIDS deaths, 2M cancer deaths, 3M hunger deaths, and the 10M abortion deaths in the same time period, it makes perfect sense to shut down the economy.

it’s almost like, idk, the quarantine is working?

just because the curve is starting to flatten does not mean we are all clear. 


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Spenser
(@spenser)
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19/04/2020 1:01 pm  

“Abortion deaths”


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