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89c51
(@89c51)
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30/05/2020 2:35 pm  
Posted by: @sgboarder

And both continue to spew hate and vitriol and resort to ad hominem attacks, because they are desperate attention whores with massive inferiority complexes who think that they are bigger when they cut others down.

 

And you just did exactly the same thing. 🤣 

 

As for Angry. He might be a piece of shit but what he deals with has nothing to do with that. He is dealing with a completely fucked up law. And again you people seem to find it completely normal (because law).


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SG Boarder
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30/05/2020 7:51 pm  
Posted by: @89c51
Posted by: @sgboarder

And both continue to spew hate and vitriol and resort to ad hominem attacks, because they are desperate attention whores with massive inferiority complexes who think that they are bigger when they cut others down.

 

And you just did exactly the same thing. 🤣 

Except I did not.

Posted by: @89c51

As for Angry. He might be a piece of shit but what he deals with has nothing to do with that. He is dealing with a completely fucked up law. And again you people seem to find it completely normal (because law).

No, it is not just about the law. Yes, part of his current predicament is due to the legal framework and it is fine to have a debate over whether the laws are sensible or not.

But aside from the law, there are also ethical and moral issues such as responsibility for the consequences of ones actions (or inaction). Regardless of legal liability, he has to live with the fact that he did/did not do was a factor in the events of that evening (including the deaths of two people).


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SG Boarder
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30/05/2020 7:55 pm  
Posted by: @casjcade

@sgboarder

Seems kinda personal, guessing there's a story behind it.

Not really. Based on my personal interactions  I consider them both to be blowhards and I do not have much time for either, but that is mostly it.

My post was just meant to add some perspective to @velvethammer's comment about Avran being a piece of shit.

 


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pow_hnd
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31/05/2020 8:28 am  

Even though Angry is a douche, I have nothing personal against him. 

As someone who has worked in bars and restaurants for most of his life, even part time when I worked in the industry, I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

It's douche bags, or people like him, with no balls to do the right thing, that makes mine and other bartenders/servers jobs harder.

His actions bring more scrutiny to us by whatever state/local agency controls alcohol sales and the typical license you have to have to serve it as both an establishment and for each individual. 

I regularly tell people to get fucked all the time, especially during ski season. People come in, mention they had a few pitchers at the Tram Club or Molly Greens before they get to my place and if they seem loose in anyway, I just refuse to serve them booze. My pub has a really strong policy about this, and the owners/management don't give a fuck if anyone gets butt hurt because we won't sell to them. It's just not worth it.

We never cave in period. Which I can say is a rare anomaly in the bar/restaurant industry. It's just not worth it, not only would our pub be affected, but so would our brewery and all the other restaurants we own. Plus here in Utah, they really take that shit to the extreme. 

We're talking like at minimum for over serving, even with no incident, you lose your individual license to serve for a period of time, get like $1000 fine personally, the bar/restaurant gets a $5-10K fine, they lose their ability to serve booze for generally a few months and have to post a sign on all the doors saying they violated the law and have lost their ability to serve booze, and then the server usually gets about 100+ hours of community service. It's fucking brutal. 

Then there is just the personal moral responsibility to do the right thing, it's no secret, what happens with booze and cars. If you're too dumb or chicken shit to tell people no, get a different fucking job. 


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Velvet Hammer
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31/05/2020 11:46 am  

I would like to say, I hope he doesn't have his life ruined over this.

I know I have watched many of my friends leave bars or nightclubs after they have had too many. Most of the time, I was too fucked up to notice or care. 

I think most of us have made bad decisions when alcohol is involved on either end, user or server.

 


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pow_hnd
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31/05/2020 7:47 pm  

@velvethammer

If he’s convicted, his life will be ruined.

By law, in that situation, he was supposed to call the cops and notify them. Not only did he not do that, they counted out the money for someone too drunk to do it themselves, still sold them booze.

If they want to they can charge him with Involuntary Manslaughter. 

Seeing as she already plead guilty, it’s not going to be good for him, I would be willing to bet, in her plea she agreed to testify in any related criminal proceedings. 

More than likely outside of the judicial side of this, he’s gonna be facing a shitload of civil litigation.

Basically, he’s fucked.

There are, at minimum two separate families that can bring civil suits. The deceased had different last names, so who knows, it could be up to four families that have the right to bring civil suits.

Just because people over-serve people daily and nothing happens that often doesn’t mean he should be exempt in this situation. 

If he didn’t want to be responsible for something like this, he could have gotten a job not selling booze so there would have never been a possibility of him being in this situation or having to be responsible and follow the law while working. 


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matty
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01/06/2020 11:21 am  

He has been charged with a misdemeanor, which he may be convicted of. Maximum penalty of $1000 fine, 364 days in jail, or both. I would be VERY surprised if he spends time in jail, though I would expect that he will likely pay the maximum fine.

As for the civil suit, the burden for any complainant bringing such a suit would be to demonstrate that Avran's actions contributed to their loss. As the containers of alcohol that he sold to the driver (a twelve-pack of beer and a bottle of tequila) were apparently discovered still unopened at the scene of the accident, it would likely be very difficult to do so. He may still end up getting sued, but I would be surprised if that suit was successful - and I doubt that he has much in the way of assets as a liquor store clerk and youtuber with a relatively unpopular and unsuccessful channel. I doubt that the dude makes any significant income from his "angrysnowboarder" online presence.

A misdemeanor conviction would not necessarily need to be reported to future employers, so he likely won't be too fucked from that.

Still, they should not have sold to an intoxicated customer. That was a very bad choice. I was a bartender, beverage program manager, general manager, and partner in restaurants. I know people who have ended up involved in similar situations. There is a level of responsibility that comes with selling booze. If there were visible indications that she was intoxicated (stumbling, slurring, fumbling money for payment), and that gave them reason to ask her not to drive, then they absolutely should not have sold her the beer and tequila.


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SG Boarder
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01/06/2020 6:26 pm  
Posted by: @matty

He has been charged with a misdemeanor, which he may be convicted of. Maximum penalty of $1000 fine, 364 days in jail, or both. I would be VERY surprised if he spends time in jail, though I would expect that he will likely pay the maximum fine.

As for the civil suit, the burden for any complainant bringing such a suit would be to demonstrate that Avran's actions contributed to their loss. As the containers of alcohol that he sold to the driver (a twelve-pack of beer and a bottle of tequila) were apparently discovered still unopened at the scene of the accident, it would likely be very difficult to do so. He may still end up getting sued, but I would be surprised if that suit was successful - and I doubt that he has much in the way of assets as a liquor store clerk and youtuber with a relatively unpopular and unsuccessful channel. I doubt that the dude makes any significant income from his "angrysnowboarder" online presence.

A misdemeanor conviction would not necessarily need to be reported to future employers, so he likely won't be too fucked from that.

Still, they should not have sold to an intoxicated customer. That was a very bad choice. I was a bartender, beverage program manager, general manager, and partner in restaurants. I know people who have ended up involved in similar situations. There is a level of responsibility that comes with selling booze. If there were visible indications that she was intoxicated (stumbling, slurring, fumbling money for payment), and that gave them reason to ask her not to drive, then they absolutely should not have sold her the beer and tequila.

Spot on, except that his responsibility almost certainly goes further than simply not selling her alcohol (a negative obligation). Depending on the circumstances there might be very well be a positive obligation (legal and/or moral) to actively take other action (call law enforcement, inform her friends/family, actively prevent her from driving, etc.).

And to complicate things further, those obligations could be potentially different and maybe even conflicting under the legal and the moral framework applied, etc.


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DRJCV
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03/06/2020 3:36 pm  
Posted by: @elektropow
Posted by: @highme

Did you really just say that the victims of sexual abuse are responsible for that abuse? Delete your bookmarks for this site and fuck all the way off. 

Wow, well imagined (not read) between the lines.

careful, the forumboss will change your profile pic then lock you out of your account.


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unsuspected
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04/06/2020 12:48 am  

Its called a ban


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unsuspected
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01/07/2020 9:47 am  

This makes me happy

https://tormentmag.com/jake-kuzyk-pride-interview/


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coleslawed
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01/07/2020 9:31 pm  

it’s rad to see people be truly happy. there’s so much joy in those interviews. 


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highme
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02/07/2020 12:15 pm  
Posted by: @deerjaycvee
Posted by: @elektropow
Posted by: @highme

Did you really just say that the victims of sexual abuse are responsible for that abuse? Delete your bookmarks for this site and fuck all the way off. 

Wow, well imagined (not read) between the lines.

careful, the forumboss will change your profile pic then lock you out of your account.

Nobody locked you out of your account shitbird, but you've hit the point where I no longer care to spend money so you can scream inanities to the void. So, I guess this is so long, die mad about it.

 

Edit: You're more than welcome to set up your own forums and say whatever the fuck you want about me or anything else, you can't do it here.

This post was modified 1 week ago by highme

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highme
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02/07/2020 12:40 pm  
Posted by: @elektropow
Posted by: @highme

Did you really just say that the victims of sexual abuse are responsible for that abuse? Delete your bookmarks for this site and fuck all the way off. 

Wow, well imagined (not read) between the lines.

"Not that I'm sympathetic towards any real assholes, but personal responsibility for fucks sake."

I guess since it was in your last sentence, there weren't any lines to read between. You don't have to post here, I'd rather you didn't. You and Doc could probably start a forum for REAL MEN DOING REAL MAN THINGS, I'm sure there's a vast untapped market out there.


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highme
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02/07/2020 12:45 pm  
Posted by: @89c51
Posted by: @highme

Did you really just say that the victims of sexual abuse are responsible for that abuse? Delete your bookmarks for this site and fuck all the way off. 

No. He just says that social media and all the SJWs think that the one who is accused is always guilty when a (alleged) sex abuse case surfaces. And he is right on that.

Its a completely fucked up logic. The same(ish) as the liquor control thing in oregon.

Abuse victims have been ignored for years, oh noes, some shitty people might have been exposed for being shitty people. Good thing you and the rest of garbage men brigade are here to make sure that society finally starting to believe abuse victims is the real fucking problem.

I took some time not reading this to see what would happen. I'm no longer in the mood to provide space for shitty people to write shitty thoughts at will. If that's going to be a problem for you, I guess you'll have to figure out how to move on in life with that burden. 


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