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unsatisfiedus
(@unsatisfiedus)
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Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 152
28/08/2020 5:36 pm  
Posted by: @notmikebuckley

VanillaISIS

no context.  haven't read the thread.  but if you want to start this band i'll play shaker or tambourine.  


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Ben
 Ben
(@nitro909)
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 19
28/08/2020 6:46 pm  
Posted by: @alonzo
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @c-fuzzy
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @c-fuzzy
Posted by: @coleslawed

DMQ just eating itself alive tonight. seems the admins there aren’t quite at the same level as @highme when it comes to being anti-bigotry.

 

thanks for everything you do here, man, and especially for doing what you can to make it a welcoming place with no room for hate. 

I hope the American people start to understand that they're being divided, humiliated, and discredited on the world stage by outside parties using propaganda through social media to manipulate us into these radical factions on all sides of the political and social spectrum.

Careful, this kind of thinking belongs in the Nico thread.

So, do you believe people are just normally extremely fearfully intolerant, radicalized,and there's no conspiracy disinformation happening?

Or do you believe am I on the verge of losing touch with reality by thinking that memes are being used as propaganda to create disinformation and fan the flames of hatred and division in the American people?

Because, um, there's quite a bit of evidence supporting that it's outside interests.

And I'm not ignorant that there are domestic social issues. I'm saying when I see the political propaganda (I'm sorry... Memes) it's pretty clear to me that it's only purpose is to pile on fear and hatred in the American people for their "opposition", whomever that is, depending on their leanings.

I agree with you 100%.  For the most part, people believe and fear what theyre told to.  I find it funny and extremely hypocritical that people here are condemning all of Nicos post based on a few things he said that may be "too far out there". But your comment is very much in line with things/memes that he has posted.  Not saying you were specifically on the Nico thread calling him a loon.

 

I can understand how one might be opposed to the way many of us (me included) condemned Nico's pronouncements for one reason or another, but where do you perceive the extreme hypocrisy? 

I'm not trying to start a fight, it's a real question - it's hard to see one's own blind spots if no one points them out.

Feel free to condemn his posts, but its doesnt mean hes wrong about everything.  I started following him just to see what you guys were talking about and all the fallout he was receiving.  I dont agree/disagree with his views any more than I may agree/disgree with someone elses views.  Besides some oddball (to me) posts, he is asking people to question what they have been told and make up their own minds.  I dont see how that is any different from what you had posted here.

Btw, this isnt meant to try to argue with you, I do agree with what you said, and my original comment was made in sarcasm to "conspiracy theories".  I bring up hyprocrisy because it seems to be a recurring theme with all the things happening around us.


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Ben
 Ben
(@nitro909)
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28/08/2020 6:48 pm  

Whats the deal with DMQ?  I havent been on FB in about two years.  That was a good group last time I was there.


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nmb
 nmb
(@notmikebuckley)
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28/08/2020 7:50 pm  

You must have missed his (several) earlier stories that were entirely racist.  Not only that, he’s not wearing the tinfoil, he’s fucking eating it.. I don’t know what he could be right about these days. 


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Ben
 Ben
(@nitro909)
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28/08/2020 10:46 pm  
Posted by: @notmikebuckley

You must have missed his (several) earlier stories that were entirely racist.  Not only that, he’s not wearing the tinfoil, he’s fucking eating it.. I don’t know what he could be right about these days. 

Ya I only heard about those stories from here, thats why I gave a follow to see for myself.  The posts I see are posits and wanting people to question things and make up their own mind instead of blindly following the "official narrative".  


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Lonz
 Lonz
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28/08/2020 11:41 pm  
Posted by: @notmikebuckley

You must have missed his (several) earlier stories that were entirely racist.  Not only that, he’s not wearing the tinfoil, he’s fucking eating it.. I don’t know what he could be right about these days. 

Methods, presumably.


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SG Boarder
(@sgboarder)
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29/08/2020 12:21 am  
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @c-fuzzy
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @c-fuzzy
Posted by: @coleslawed

DMQ just eating itself alive tonight. seems the admins there aren’t quite at the same level as @highme when it comes to being anti-bigotry.

 

thanks for everything you do here, man, and especially for doing what you can to make it a welcoming place with no room for hate. 

I hope the American people start to understand that they're being divided, humiliated, and discredited on the world stage by outside parties using propaganda through social media to manipulate us into these radical factions on all sides of the political and social spectrum.

Careful, this kind of thinking belongs in the Nico thread.

So, do you believe people are just normally extremely fearfully intolerant, radicalized,and there's no conspiracy disinformation happening?

Or do you believe am I on the verge of losing touch with reality by thinking that memes are being used as propaganda to create disinformation and fan the flames of hatred and division in the American people?

Because, um, there's quite a bit of evidence supporting that it's outside interests.

And I'm not ignorant that there are domestic social issues. I'm saying when I see the political propaganda (I'm sorry... Memes) it's pretty clear to me that it's only purpose is to pile on fear and hatred in the American people for their "opposition", whomever that is, depending on their leanings.

I agree with you 100%.  For the most part, people believe and fear what theyre told to.  I find it funny and extremely hypocritical that people here are condemning all of Nicos post based on a few things he said that may be "too far out there". But your comment is very much in line with things/memes that he has posted.  Not saying you were specifically on the Nico thread calling him a loon.

 

Not. Even. Close.

@c-fuzzy is merely saying that some parties (on both sides of the argument) seem to be be spreading false information, presumably with the deliberate intent to intensify divisions and create discord. The former is an obviously correct observation of facts and the second seems a completely reasonable and rational inference.

How is that in any way similar to what Nico is doing - namely pushing extreme viewpoints, discredited conspiracy theories, proven untruths, racist attacks and accusations, etc. Completely different.


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SG Boarder
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29/08/2020 12:31 am  
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @notmikebuckley

You must have missed his (several) earlier stories that were entirely racist.  Not only that, he’s not wearing the tinfoil, he’s fucking eating it.. I don’t know what he could be right about these days. 

Ya I only heard about those stories from here, thats why I gave a follow to see for myself.  The posts I see are posits and wanting people to question things and make up their own mind instead of blindly following the "official narrative".  

Completely untrue. He is strongly pushing extreme (although contradictory - because incoherent) points and allows no room for disagreement.

One recent example:

I am an artist speaking truth, the only conspiracy is the conspiracy. Q is Declas and everything is spot on and the whole world WILL see it ALL! New age coming up, be ready or go down with the old

This post was modified 2 months ago by SG Boarder

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Ben
 Ben
(@nitro909)
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Posts: 19
29/08/2020 12:40 am  
Posted by: @sgboarder
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @notmikebuckley

You must have missed his (several) earlier stories that were entirely racist.  Not only that, he’s not wearing the tinfoil, he’s fucking eating it.. I don’t know what he could be right about these days. 

Ya I only heard about those stories from here, thats why I gave a follow to see for myself.  The posts I see are posits and wanting people to question things and make up their own mind instead of blindly following the "official narrative".  

Completely untrue. He is strongly pushing extreme (although contradictory - because incoherent) points and allows no room for disagreement.

Recent example:

I am an artist speaking truth, the only conspiracy is the conspiracy. Q is Declas and everything is spot on and the whole world WILL see it ALL! New age coming up, be ready or go down with the old

Damn, I must be missing his posts like this.  I have seen others that were way more mellow.  He may be pushing numerous ideas, some very extreme, but at least the ones Ive seen are pretty mellow and simply question the status quo.  


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Bopuc
(@bopuc2)
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Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 105
29/08/2020 11:48 pm  

Questioning the status quo is one thing. But the point of questioning is coming to some sort of verifiable (read: collectively accepted) truth. The verifiable part is what flies out the window when you stay in theory (ever scientist knows that…)… not to mention the theorists involved are not sound/ethical to begin with.

Not ever trusting anything, ever means you end up psychotically paranoid, alone and eventually (usually quickly when not kept going by the many levels of social infrastructure, which are all unravelling fast in some places) dead. 🤷‍♂️


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c.fuzzy
(@c-fuzzy)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1694
31/08/2020 1:14 pm  
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @alonzo
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @c-fuzzy
Posted by: @nitro909
Posted by: @c-fuzzy
Posted by: @coleslawed

DMQ just eating itself alive tonight. seems the admins there aren’t quite at the same level as @highme when it comes to being anti-bigotry.

 

thanks for everything you do here, man, and especially for doing what you can to make it a welcoming place with no room for hate. 

I hope the American people start to understand that they're being divided, humiliated, and discredited on the world stage by outside parties using propaganda through social media to manipulate us into these radical factions on all sides of the political and social spectrum.

Careful, this kind of thinking belongs in the Nico thread.

So, do you believe people are just normally extremely fearfully intolerant, radicalized,and there's no conspiracy disinformation happening?

Or do you believe am I on the verge of losing touch with reality by thinking that memes are being used as propaganda to create disinformation and fan the flames of hatred and division in the American people?

Because, um, there's quite a bit of evidence supporting that it's outside interests.

And I'm not ignorant that there are domestic social issues. I'm saying when I see the political propaganda (I'm sorry... Memes) it's pretty clear to me that it's only purpose is to pile on fear and hatred in the American people for their "opposition", whomever that is, depending on their leanings.

I agree with you 100%.  For the most part, people believe and fear what theyre told to.  I find it funny and extremely hypocritical that people here are condemning all of Nicos post based on a few things he said that may be "too far out there". But your comment is very much in line with things/memes that he has posted.  Not saying you were specifically on the Nico thread calling him a loon.

 

I can understand how one might be opposed to the way many of us (me included) condemned Nico's pronouncements for one reason or another, but where do you perceive the extreme hypocrisy? 

I'm not trying to start a fight, it's a real question - it's hard to see one's own blind spots if no one points them out.

Feel free to condemn his posts, but its doesnt mean hes wrong about everything.  I started following him just to see what you guys were talking about and all the fallout he was receiving.  I dont agree/disagree with his views any more than I may agree/disgree with someone elses views.  Besides some oddball (to me) posts, he is asking people to question what they have been told and make up their own minds.  I dont see how that is any different from what you had posted here.

Btw, this isnt meant to try to argue with you, I do agree with what you said, and my original comment was made in sarcasm to "conspiracy theories".  I bring up hyprocrisy because it seems to be a recurring theme with all the things happening around us.

The huge difference between what I'm saying and what Nico is saying is that I'm pointing out that people are being manipulated and radicalized through propaganda to believe conspiracies...

and Nico is one of the radicalized products of these propaganda manipulations. 

It seems he bought into the Qanon thing, which, the thing about the Qanon thing that is so debilitating is that built into the conspiracy is that anything that might discredit it is then seen by believers as counter-conspiracy which reinforces the conspiracy belief rather than exposes the truth.

So, there's nothing that could ever be said or done to show those that believe it that the whole thing is a lie. Any argument against, any truth that might expose it, is rationalized away as "deep state" propaganda... so the more evidence or logic you might have against Qanon, the bigger of a "sheep" you are. 

So, yeah. It's fucked. And that's one thing. There's so many "movements" going on right now that are aimed at dividing and radicalizing people though fear-based propaganda.

And the thing is both sides, all sides, whatever... everyone... is being led to believe their intolerance is the correct one. That they're on the right side and it justifies their bad actions, because their bad actions are actually good actions.

And I think it's all a subversive propaganda machine to get Americans to go to war with each other so we fall apart from the inside out.


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kimchi
(@kimchi)
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31/08/2020 1:43 pm  
Posted by: @c-fuzzy

And the thing is both sides, all sides, whatever... everyone... is being led to believe their intolerance is the correct one. That they're on the right side and it justifies their bad actions, because their bad actions are actually good actions.

I agree the American left is falling into a trap of over-polarization and division, and is certainly prone to groupthink. But on the extreme left are factions that are not the least bit pragmatic about how to effectuate their policy ideas and trying to shout down reasoned idealogical dissent. On the mainstream of the right are kleptocrats, Qanon conspiracy theorists, and literal fucking fascists. So let's not create "both sides" false equivalency here.


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c.fuzzy
(@c-fuzzy)
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01/09/2020 8:33 am  
Posted by: @kimchi
Posted by: @c-fuzzy

And the thing is both sides, all sides, whatever... everyone... is being led to believe their intolerance is the correct one. That they're on the right side and it justifies their bad actions, because their bad actions are actually good actions.

I agree the American left is falling into a trap of over-polarization and division, and is certainly prone to groupthink. But on the extreme left are factions that are not the least bit pragmatic about how to effectuate their policy ideas and trying to shout down reasoned idealogical dissent. On the mainstream of the right are kleptocrats, Qanon conspiracy theorists, and literal fucking fascists. So let's not create "both sides" false equivalency here.

I don't believe there's a both sides false equivalency in what I'm saying, as my intention isn't to rationalize or justify one side by pointing out to mistakes of the other. This is a 'two wrongs don't make a right' thing.

I also think we have to be careful to avoid dismissing things we don't like by giving them labels that allow dismissal.

But ideologically I'm right there with you @kimchi

However, we have to be really careful what we're believing to be true and actual though, because the disinformation, propaganda, lies... it's not just targeting one side. But as you pointed out, it's relevant to have concerns about movements that are in essence built upon our worst characteristics, gathering support. I don't want that either.

Unfortunately, in the current discourse, I don't see that anyone is making attempts to correct the real problem. And this is my goal to be a voice that says, the real problem is that we're being manipulated though propaganda generated by foreign interests to turn on each other.

And one of the ways this is being done imo is that they've seized upon the ideological movement where there are no facts, no truth, but everything is a construct, and it's been used rend out our ability to have any discourse about anything. 

We've been told that whatever we believe to be true is true. Whatever we want truth to be, that's what it is. It's obvious to see how dangerous this idea is when it comes to Qanon, but it's not one sided. 

I'm hopeful that there's a way to reason our way out of this. But really, I think we have to fight it by educating people that they're being head-fucked with propaganda so that we can collectively turn it off. 

Idk. my $.02. fwiw. Probably nothing.


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matty
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01/09/2020 12:23 pm  

I think that it is important to acknowledge that, here in the the USA's two party system, one party's leadership appears to be especially COMPLICIT with the efforts of hostile foreign governments while pushing this divisive propagandizing and erosion of our democratic system - and that's not a conspiracy theory. That's the conclusion of multiple investigations and reports with uncountable pages of evidence in support.

As for Nico: I was one of the more active EL members against his bullshit. Characterizing his rhetoric as simply questioning the status quo and those of us who spoke out against him as hypocrites is, at best, ridiculously ill-informed.


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coleslawed
(@coleslawed)
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01/09/2020 8:02 pm  

^^^

while there has been misinformation across the whole spectrum, only one side has been, ahem, propagating these falsehoods. 


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