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Bopuc
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Posted by: @tp1kenobi

What I find shit is that B hasn't said a goddamn word about it.  Work together, improve, make the world a better place.  Recognise the history, live the present based on the history, and improve the future.  I think we can all agree Burton has never been perfect and have made their fair share of mistakes.  They need to grow the fuck up.

Not sure you are paying attention. From what I can tell, Burton has embraced a strategy of doing just that: they trade heavily on their history (of progessiveness, openness and stoke), they work tirelessly with their teams and they are promoting young diverse people and attitudes, and cutting ties with old, bigoted dead weight. 

Terje's a millionaire and free. He can thank Burton for that. No one owes him anything, especially with his evident decades of petulant self-centered attitude. "Unnn he's a good snowboarder!" So what? He's demonstrated he's a close-minded selfish jerk, time and time again. Why would *anyone* spend another second trying to accommodate his childishness?

Terje and the numbskulls like him need to grow up. Burton is plenty mature.

Future's bright! No time to waste. 🙂


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nmb
 nmb
(@notmikebuckley)
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@mikehoncho dude what? I never said terje should be “canceled”.. maybe bump up some reading comprehension over there 


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coleslawed
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Posted by: @tp1kenobi

They didn't care if you are male/female/non-binary, YOU COULDN'T RIDE THERE. 

they didn’t care because the majority of snowboarders were straight white dudes. now that snowboarding is accepted by the world, Burton (and others, like Torment) is making room for those people who are underrepresented in snowboarding and that’s a good thing. 


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casjcade
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terje has had a unique free speaking position in a brand like that, so maybe it says something about the direction burton is headed, or who they work with. for all we know some federations and promotion partners could have been pressuring them in a certain direction. strong personalities with personal opinions can be scary for leaders, and dropping someone with no notice smells of fear. i think he has really good ideas for improving snowboarding, but maybe not diplomacy and getting the most people involved, which  is really important for the industry to survive.

 


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Crustacean
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Posted by: @pow_hnd
Posted by: @crustacean

disagree. he is very influential to old farts like me that actually have the money to buy shit

There is not a single rider out there that influences me to buy a damn thing. I buy what works for me based on what it is and what I need. In fact the only product that I have that has any Pro connection is my boots, and that just happens to be because DC boots fit my feet best, Not because T-Rice wears them. 

Have you ever heard of Nicolas Wolken?😀


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pow_hnd
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@crustacean 

um, yea. But he didn’t get me to buy their decks. What got me to buy them was a variety of things, that has nothing to do with their riders. 

1. Built in the EU where people are paid fair wages, no China and no Dubai 

2. No unnecessary yearly product cycle. Graphics don’t change. My 3 year old TF 54 looks just like this years.

3.  Make both splits and solids.

4. lots of camber and mid wide decks. I like camber and I like wide. I also like stiffer decks that plow through crud. 

I could keep going on, but no rider ever inspired motivated me to buy their product. It was truly a product driven decision. 

I also have Priors and once again, no riders, purely a product that works for me decision.

  


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tp1_kenobi
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Posted by: @coleslawed
Posted by: @tp1kenobi

They didn't care if you are male/female/non-binary, YOU COULDN'T RIDE THERE. 

they didn’t care because the majority of snowboarders were straight white dudes. now that snowboarding is accepted by the world, Burton (and others, like Torment) is making room for those people who are underrepresented in snowboarding and that’s a good thing. 

No disagreement here.  What I'm trying to get at is axing Terje just further divides what snowboarding is about and how he has represented snowboarders overall.  It plays into this cancel culture situation and does not provide an individual to voice an apology and then subsequently have those who were wronged to be able to forgive the mistake that was made.  While others may disagree on how he is/isn't representing snowboarders today, I for one have appreciated what he has done for the community and snowboarding's history.

I'm not condoning his use of words and the context to how he used them.  I've gone through his process personally years ago.  What I find truly disappointing is B not standing by their man after an admission of a mistake, and an apology that issued afterwards.  This sucks for everyone.


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coleslawed
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ehhh, they cut him years after the original comment was made and months before a public apology. 


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pow_hnd
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Posted by: @tp1kenobi

What I find truly disappointing is B not standing by their man after an admission of a mistake, and an apology that issued afterwards. 

From what I was told. He didn't want to make the admission of mistake, and only wrote the apology after he was told he had to. Then ( and I'm not agreeing, just relaying what I heard ) many of the younger crowd and other individuals at B didn't really think his apology was heart felt and were tweaked that he only wrote it because he was told to and not out of his own volition. 

From my understanding he was pretty adamant that, I'm not homophobic ( which could very well be true ) and therefore I'm not apologizing, he just took that stance a bit too long. 

I was lead to believe that if he had issued a heartfelt apology back when it happened and not choose to die upon his hill, he would still be there, and the incident would have never ballooned into what it became. 


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c.fuzzy
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @pow_hnd
Posted by: @tp1kenobi

What I find truly disappointing is B not standing by their man after an admission of a mistake, and an apology that issued afterwards. 

From what I was told. He didn't not want to make the admission of mistake, and only wrote the apology after he was told he had to. Then ( and I'm not agreeing, just relaying what I heard ) many of the younger crowd and other individuals at B didn't really think his apology was heart felt and were tweaked that he only wrote it because he was told to and not out of his own volition. 

From my understanding he was pretty adamant that, I'm not homophobic ( which could very well be true ) and therefore I'm not apologizing, he just took that stance a bit too long. 

I was lead to believe that if he had issued a heartfelt apology back when it happened and not choose to die upon his hill, he would still be there, and the incident would have never ballooned into what it became. 

Terje has the right to stand on his own principles. He did. That's true to the nature of snowboarders bucking "the man" and just going with their heart. Punk af? 

And B can run their company however they want...but also not really, because if employees can say they're fostering a "hostile" work environment, Terje becomes a liability. I think B did what they could.

Terje got the benefit of an opportunity to make an bend-the-knee apology that fit the current environment and he didn't think he needed to because he doesn't believe he's homophobic, and in his mind an overt apology would be a tacit admission that he is homophobic; which he doesn't see himself. Damned both ways, he took the stance that fits his sense of who he truly is and not who others say he is.

He's standing up to the stereotyping of the "straight white male' as always guilty of being the oppressor and it's a losing position because there's no reasonable defense to being a straight white male. To evidence this, if Terje were gay no one could take issue with his joke and since he's not there's the automatic assumption that he's being subversive to the gay culture and homophobic. But the problem is being a straight white male has been made to be synonymous with oppression of minorities, especially in the public court of opinion.

And a defense pointing out two wrongs don't make a right looks a lot like not wanting to accept repercussions for historic oppression. Some people recognize this for what it is and some of those people say "good... this is what they deserve". 

For instance a person showing their culture doing things typical of their culture is fine, but a straight white male showing a culture doing things typical of their culture can be called out for being insensitive and stereotyping and prejudice. 

This came to me recently, as I was watching a new Disney movie with my kids that had an African-American kid with a Hightop haircut, and I thought to myself, if the producer of the movie is ethnic this is probably okay but if the producer is white this can be made to be something like stereotyping.

Also, if the producer is white and they showed an African-American kid not being stereotypical to their culture, that too could be made into something like taking away their culture and making them more white.

And also, if the producer is white and they try to avoid this pitfall by not including ethnicity that's going to be an issue.

Imo the idea that toxic character that is wrong one side, is then somehow justified on the other is wrong. Of course this isn't just straight white males but a gradient, whomever can claim a bit more historic oppression than the next gains a bit more power. But I don't get to say any of that because I'm the wrong type of person to say that, regardless of my true character.


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Alexxx
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Who’s designing boards at B these days anyway?


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nmb
 nmb
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I’ve worked in HR for  for 7 years or so, people would get canned for this kinda shit all the time. Violating social media clauses, hate speech, etc. Apology or not, you fucked up and you’re out. It’s unfortunate the way it played out, but I don’t feel bad for terje either. 


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bknyc
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based on his silence, I assume he was paid out generously to not say anything negative publicly

having said that, I think there is value to have riders of his age and experience on your product design and development teams as seen with some of the more interesting design/shapes Burton released the past decade


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SG Boarder
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[...]To evidence this, if Terje were gay no one could take issue with his joke and since he's not there's the automatic assumption that he's being subversive to the gay culture and homophobic. But the problem is being a straight white male has been made to be synonymous with oppression of minorities, especially in the public court of opinion.

Totally disagree with that. His "joke" was tasteless and wrong period. And it would have been as as tasteless and wrong if he were gay.

 

Imo the idea that toxic character that is wrong one side, is then somehow justified on the other is wrong. Of course this isn't just straight white males but a gradient, whomever can claim a bit more historic oppression than the next gains a bit more power. But I don't get to say any of that because I'm the wrong type of person to say that, regardless of my true character.

I do agree with that. There is a logical inconsistency (and possibly real hypocrisy) in the points made/positions advocated.


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pow_hnd
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Posted by: @c-fuzzy

To evidence this, if Terje were gay no one could take issue with his joke and since he's not there's the automatic assumption that he's being subversive to the gay culture and homophobic

Yea, I don’t agree with that at all.

Ever heard of Milos Yiannopoulos? 

For better or worse, this is where Burton is at. 

It’s now female owned and has a majority female senior leadership team. As a group that was and still is repressed ( women ), they ( Donna and female leadership ) are in a position to take no shit from anyone, or put up with anyones shit ( Terje ) 

Burton is still the biggest brand in snowboarding by a country mile. That won’t be changing anytime soon. 

Donna and her leadership team seem to be following the womens WNBA which has been way out in front of the pack when it comes to social justice, equality and change. 

There are gonna be some people that don’t like it, but personally my thoughts are fuck em. 

Now this doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t be able to correct and atone for their mistakes, because we are all human, and we’ve all made them. 

The issue with Terje is he was a repeat offender ( there were other instances) and he just didn’t get it and change and when first called out for the Forrest incident, he stood his ground and didn’t want to apologize. So if your not gonna evolve, then you’re gonna get shown the door. Like another of his sponsors ( former? ) slogan “ the only constant is change. “ 

Terje seemed to have missed that concept. 

People get all enamored and feel like pros are the people who built the brands and made them successful and that a sponsor should be beholden to them.  That couldn’t be further from the truth. Look at Forum, by far the most popular team probably ever. Did that brand survive? No. Because while a team helps, it doesn’t do the heavy lifting and make a brand successful.

Now this doesn’t  mean that I don’t think older pros shouldn’t still be on teams, because if you’re doing it right you can still add value in your 40s and 50s. And as we get into our 40s and 50s we still spend money and want relatable pros. ( i.e. our own age, making turns, slashing pow and not trying corked 14s )

Everyone seems to think that snowboarding and skateboarding are these awesome all inclusive groups. While there is a sliver of truth to that, it really is not the actual truth.

It’s a predominantly white male culture, and due to the cost of entry snowboarding is worst of the two ( with skiers the even bigger overall assholes ) 

Look how many people idolized Jay Adams, and swooned when he died. Dude was a fucking piece of shit.

Now there are plenty of us that aren’t assholes and are inclusive in these ranks, but still, until Donna, it’s all been men running the show for the most part.

Now there is a women is going to use the weight of her brand to champion the things she sees fit and if you’re in her employment and aren’t on the same wavelength with her thinking, you probably won’t be there for long. 

 


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